President Resigns ** Then Thinks about it **

[Admin]

Here's a scenario to consider. Our elected reps resign - declare all positions open and declare that they will not stand for the vacancies. WHo among you will stand? YOU? YOU? or YOU? No - I didn't think so. Happy to make the bullets and have somebody else fire them...

I can remember posting that I was considering standing again...Macca, perhaps you missed that post when you were reading everything

 

Did any one of you call the office and offer to help process the backlog of registrations - ANYONE - JUST ONE - offer an hour of your precious time when you spent so much time on this blog composing your useless pearls of wisdom? I doubt it.

Dodo (the person who posted above)...how many days did you spend working in the office to help clear the backlog?

 

What a whining bunch of ********************* My hope is that I never meet any of you!

Sorry to hear that Macca

 

 

[dodo]

No, you may not! Vitriol suggests bitterness. There is no bitterness in my thought process. If anything, pity would probably better describe my sentiment. My comments pale given the invective that has been levelled towards those who have given of themselves in an effort to help our association. This public forum is not the place to conduct a Kangaroo Court. It is demeaning at best.

Firstly, the vitriol:

 

From just one paragraph of your post...non-vitriol removed:

 

spiteful amateurish rabid mob wanna-be's strip down Armchair critics and pub lawyers utterly despicable self-centred would-be-if-we could-be big-mouthed no back-up performers.

 

Dictionary:

 

Vitriol: bitter criticism or malice

 

I think you qualify.

 

Next, the real issues:

 

- RA has significant problems. Pretty much undeniable.

 

- the board is not responding to members concerns, both in communication, and in action.

 

- the question "why don't you stand for the board?" can be best answered by a number of ex-board members who have contributed a great deal to RA,and also contribute on this forum (Carol Richards, for one example).

 

If your contention that someone must have contributed in some significant and public way before criticising, I have seen no evidence that you have justified your right to judge or criticise.

 

However, if you think that aircraft grounded after RA failing numerous CASA audits is OK, and that the turnover of technical managers is fine, and that we can't comply with regulatory requirements that the local crochet club manages to meet, then all is well.

 

In which case, I suggest you go flying and don't worry about RA-Aus.

 

Me, I will go to the GM and listen, and form a view at that time as to how the problems we have are being addressed, and the best way forward.

 

dodo

 

 

[Captain]

What an utterly despicable lot of self-centred would-be-if-we could-be big-mouthed no back-up performers. PUT YOUR NAME ON A BALLOT PAPER rather than on a petiton. TALK IS CHEAP and cheap shots are even cheaper.What a bloody disgrace. We have people who have the dedication to put themselves forward to give of their own time in order to continue the spirit of our shared passion and they are confronted with THIS OUTRAGEOUS CAPAIGN AGAINST THEM?

 

Quite frankly, you don't deserve the efforts that these elected representatives contribute.

Sounds pretty vitriolic to me, Macca. Particularly the last line of your post # 228, but anonymity can do that to some people.

 

While you do, of course, have the right to contribute what you wish here, I find it strange that you make no mention of the litany of failures of process, systems, management and governance that have been evident within RAA over recent years, and which have resulted in members being GROUNDED through no fault of their own.

 

And given that, I just don't grasp this logic that members must not discuss or criticise elected representatives, unless those doing the criticising are seen to be standing for the Board.

 

It is perverse that you are suggesting that all Board Members are given a leave-pass on poor management just because they stand.

 

Your logic also appears to give no acknowledgement to the fact that a properly convened GM (EGM) has been requested to address these issues and to take some further action if the members decide that is what they want. I guess that, by extension, you feel that meeting should not proceed before the next board election.

 

So I ask, just how bad would things have to get before Macca would accept that an RAA member has the right to discuss the issues here, and criticise those that run our organisation. Would it be if the books were cooked, if the AGM Minutes were non-representative, how about if the Financial reports were late, how about if we have a succession of recruiting failures and departures of senior staff, how about if even more members were grounded ............. or what.

 

I think it weird for Macca to suggest that being elected to the Board makes someone immune from discussion or criticism.

 

But, Macca, you have every right to your considered opinion, which I reckon contains more poison and vitriol than all posts that you are criticising.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[kaz3g]

An action against an individual Board Member would have to be taken in the ACT Civil & Administrative Tribunal (ACAT). The outcome could be for that individual to be disqualified from being a member of the Management Committee (Board) for a period set down by the ACAT.

 

Yes, the Tribunal hears administrative (process) matters.

 

I can't imagine a financial penalty being imposed but the Act does provide for a fine of up to something like $2,000 for an offence against, for example section 73 of the Act. But, the penalties are there for a reason - to deter people from committing the offences.

 

Offences are criminal matters. They are prosecuted by the DPP or police and are heard by a court.

 

An action in negligence mounted against a committee member may have a very different outcome in that "employers" are generally vicariously liable for the negligent actions of an employee and a similar relationship may be held to exist between committee member and association.

 

The Registrar-General of the Office of Regulatory Services could, if he/she chooses to, initiate such an action if the Committee (Board) Member has committed an offence against the Associations Incorporation Act, 1991.

 

The Registrar-General could but seems not to be listening. He also seems to have communication problems because he hasn't responded to my latest letter as yet.

 

If a Board Members is "convicted" of an offence against the Act and fined, RAA and its insurers are prohibited from paying the fine for the Board Member. I seriously doubt that they could even justify paying for a legal defence. If the matter was defended and lost then the Board Member might find himself in the position of having to reimburse RAA for the cost of the defence. The point is, do not break the law!!!

 

If a committee member is charged with an offence, it is for the committee member to defend it. If found not guilty, he may have a claim for costs against the state but no claim would lie against the Association.

 

My bet is that many of these blokes haven't read the act and just don't know that they have committed an offence.

 

Mine too.

 

That Bush Lawyer

 

 

[Bandit12]

....That Bush Lawyer

Not enough people appreciate just how rare it is for professionals like Kaz to share their knowledge and experience freely.

 

Off topic but Kaz, my wife went through DTS about 10 years before you, and is still in Crime Dept. You may have met somewhere along the way....

 

 

[kaz3g]

Not enough people appreciate just how rare it is for professionals like Kaz to share their knowledge and experience freely.Off topic but Kaz, my wife went through DTS about 10 years before you, and is still in Crime Dept. You may have met somewhere along the way....

It is off topic, but thank you for your kind comment. Perhaps Mckenzie Street on Friday nights?

 

kaz

 

 

[Admin]

Not enough people appreciate just how rare it is for professionals like Kaz to share their knowledge and experience freely.Off topic but Kaz, my wife went through DTS about 10 years before you, and is still in Crime Dept. You may have met somewhere along the way....

Is that "Mrs. Bandit" in the Crime Dept?...sorry mate I know really off topic but couldn't help myself...Merry Christmas

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Hi Macca

 

In response to some of your comments, there are around half a dozen ex-board members who have expressed concerns on this forum about the state of affairs within the organisation. There are also some here that have put their hat in the ring for board positions but were unsuccessful so I reckon a better phrase to use would have been "wannabes and has beens". Without wanting to cause offence, I think your comments are a little naive with regards to the composition of the contributors and other matters but by the same token you have reignited a thread that I thought would go into hibernation over the Christmas break and its always good to hear a differing opinion.

 

Merry Christmas to all

 

Nick

 

 

[dazza 38]

Well Turbo, I took your advice and although it took a deal of my time, I did read through the extensive posts and have, after due consideration, taking into account my own previous posts, come to my own conclusions.Seldom, if ever have I observed a more spiteful amateurish campaign by a rabid mob of wanna-be's than this. You ought to strip down and take a long hard look at yourselves. Armchair critics and pub lawyers is all I see here. What an utterly despicable lot of self-centred would-be-if-we could-be big-mouthed no back-up performers. PUT YOUR NAME ON A BALLOT PAPER rather than on a petiton. TALK IS CHEAP and cheap shots are even cheaper.

 

What a bloody disgrace. We have people who have the dedication to put themselves forward to give of their own time in order to continue the spirit of our shared passion and they are confronted with THIS OUTRAGEOUS CAPAIGN AGAINST THEM?

 

Quite frankly, you don't deserve the efforts that these elected representatives contribute.

 

Here's a scenario to consider. Our elected reps resign - declare all positions open and declare that they will not stand for the vacancies. WHo among you will stand? YOU? YOU? or YOU? No - I didn't think so. Happy to make the bullets and have somebody else fire them...

 

YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!

 

Did any one of you call the office and offer to help process the backlog of registrations - ANYONE - JUST ONE - offer an hour of your precious time when you spent so much time on this blog composing your useless pearls of wisdom? I doubt it.

 

TYPICAL - of any club be it golf bowls or flying - "THOSE WHO CAN - DO! Those who can't - whine and whinge.

 

IF you can do better, then DO SO. if not then leave it to those who are trying.

 

What a whining bunch of ********************* My hope is that I never meet any of you!

No need to beat around the Bush Macca, just tell us how you really feel.

 

 

[nomadpete]

An action against an individual Board Member would have to be taken in the ACT Civil & Administrative Tribunal (ACAT). The outcome could be for that individual to be disqualified from being a member of the Management Committee (Board) for a period set down by the ACAT. Yes, the Tribunal hears administrative (process) matters.

 

I can't imagine a financial penalty being imposed but the Act does provide for a fine of up to something like $2,000 for an offence against, for example section 73 of the Act. But, the penalties are there for a reason - to deter people from committing the offences.

 

Offences are criminal matters. They are prosecuted by the DPP or police and are heard by a court.

 

An action in negligence mounted against a committee member may have a very different outcome in that "employers" are generally vicariously liable for the negligent actions of an employee and a similar relationship may be held to exist between committee member and association.

 

The Registrar-General of the Office of Regulatory Services could, if he/she chooses to, initiate such an action if the Committee (Board) Member has committed an offence against the Associations Incorporation Act, 1991.

 

The Registrar-General could but seems not to be listening. He also seems to have communication problems because he hasn't responded to my latest letter as yet.

 

If a Board Members is "convicted" of an offence against the Act and fined, RAA and its insurers are prohibited from paying the fine for the Board Member. I seriously doubt that they could even justify paying for a legal defence. If the matter was defended and lost then the Board Member might find himself in the position of having to reimburse RAA for the cost of the defence. The point is, do not break the law!!!

 

If a committee member is charged with an offence, it is for the committee member to defend it. If found not guilty, he may have a claim for costs against the state but no claim would lie against the Association.

 

My bet is that many of these blokes haven't read the act and just don't know that they have committed an offence.

 

Mine too.

 

That Bush Lawyer

Kaz,

 

Thanks for your contributions to this forum. Balanced, informative and clear. If ever I get into trouble, I'd be content to have the services of a 'bush lawyer' like you any day. Unfortunately your information only adds to my concern for our collective future.

 

Anyway, February will hopefully clarify a lot of things for us, and hopefully resolve some too.

 

Have a great festive season in spite of all that.

 

PT

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Back to topic.

 

Fact: Steve Runciman resigned as Nth Qld Board Member and thus became just an ordinary member.

 

Fact: The Board purported to make ordinary member Steve Runciman President of a Board he was not a member of.

 

Fact: Steve Runciman is still an ordinary member not a Board Member and can not become a Board Member again unless he goes through an election process.

 

Fact: any action taken by the Board or Board Exec is potentially invalid while SR acts as though he were a Board Member.

 

Fact: Middo has not provided any legal advice to the Board and refused to provide it to ordinary members who ask for it. Why not? Got none?

 

Macca, got any facts? Or just lots of hate and misplaced pity? Your extremely vitriolic attack against the people as opposed to a logical crushing of their arguments is identical to Steve Runciman's standard operating tactic. Could "Macca" be a pseudonym for . . . you know who?

 

 

[ahlocks]

Could "Macca" be a pseudonym for . . . you know who?

Nope......

 

 

[David Isaac]

Sneaky bugga Locksie ... xxx ... Merry Christmas ...

 

 

[Guest john]

To All Interested RAAus Members.

 

It is apparent from the response by "MACCA" after he has wasted his valuable time in reading through the many threads on this subject that he is one eyed whereby he is right & every body else is wrong.

 

This reminds me of the marching band member who went up to the band leader after the band stopped marching & playing & said to the band master, "DO YOU REALISE THAT ALL OF THE OTHER BAND MEMBERS WERE OUT OF STEP EXCEPT ME WHILST WE WERE MARCHING".

 

I'm afraid MACCA that as long as my ass points to the ground, your remarks about what has been going on behind closed doors by the so called EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS & EX CEO are as useful as an ash tray on a motor bike.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Hear Hear to posts 229 to 232 & 234 to 249. All informative without malice or pushing barrows. Can't say the same for 228 & 233 though.

 

 

[Admin]

Right enough is enough...please read this post...EVERYONE!:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/please-read.53742/

 

 

[dodo]

Hear Hear to posts 229 to 232 & 234 to 249. All informative without malice or pushing barrows. Can't say the same for 228 & 233 though.

Whats wrong with 233? I thought it soothing,reasonable, placid...

 

 

[turboplanner]

He probably meant 234 dodo - we understand

 

 

[dodo]

He probably meant 234 dodo - we understand

I just thought 233 was almost too relaxed (the chillout,give it a week or two, she'll be right feel) - and then coinciding with Ian's kind warning!

 

So I couldn't resist,

 

dodo

 

PS Merry Christmas to all, especially those who have had a rough month or year. I'll check in in a day or so.

 

 

[Macca274]

Regarding my previous comments. They were (in my view) offensive and were fully intended to be so. The intention was to implant a seed in the minds of many when it comes to open and public criticism. It hurts and sometimes it hurts deeply. Not that it matters to any here, but I have personal experience in being grossly and unjustifiably scorned, humiliated and almost ruined until I was finally totally exonerated and other parties brought to account.

 

For any offense, hurt or humiliation my comments caused, I of course unreservedly withdraw and apologise, but injustice, my friends is something that I have fought against since a very young age.

 

My point is simply this. As I explained in my introduction, my life's work has been in negotiation, problem-solving and troubleshooting. e.g. One of the "tools" is to allow the hostage taker to view a situation from the point of view of the hostage by making he or she a hostage themselves. This applies in business at corporate level all the way down to the coalface.

 

The state of affairs at R.A.A. is less than satisfacory. On that point we are in glorious agreement, but what saddens me and I say so with all sincerity, is this public airing of our laundry.

 

How did we arrive at this situation?

 

What do we do to resolve it?

 

How can we avoid a recurrence?

 

These, I believe are the questions that have to be addressed, but without the finger-pointing and what is know known as "the blame game".

 

In answer to some of your questions, yes, I did read all of the posts. Yes, I do recognise that former Board Members are concerned and yes, I do understand the concerns that have been presented. I just cannot help but feel that this public stoush is demeaning to all of us.

 

We have members with boundless talents and experience. Perhaps there is an opportunity to utilise those talents with a bit of "Pro-Bono" advice, a second opinion, a list of Members with various talents, as we have lists of L.A.M.E. with various qualifications noted. A voluntary list available only to the Board and not for general publication.

 

There are many ways to resolve the issues, but I appeal to you to cease and desist from open publication of "legal opinion" or "crimes" or issues involving Administration Tribunals. It really sets a dreadful tone and what of the feelings of the incumbents? They are, after all people like any of the rest of us.

 

Think also of the future. Who the hell would be game to put themselves forward knowing that they would be subjected to this form of scrutiny? I, for one, would run a bloody mile before puting myself through the wringer when at heart I was only trying to help.

 

Anyway, enough for the moment.

 

Seasons greetings to one and all. I'll be spending tomorrow doing some work on the plane with Jack. He's me dog.

 

Cheers

 

Macca

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'd get some new "tools"; those failed miserably.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just in case anyone is taking this discussion lightly, playing politics or thinking of applying clever psychology take a read of this, from another thread:

 

"Well it's Christmas eve and still grounded.

 

The mail man did manage to bring a 'final notice' letter from middo today. Lost all the photos i sent them years ago so have to send them a full set. Now i bet the warning plackards (they peeled of the tool box pretty easily with some steam) will be useless as they state AUF and not RAAus, so one would have to think that maybe whoever is running the show could have taken the initiative and included a new set. Why the letter and not email/phone as others had? So it was due on the 1st dec probably won't get done until the second week of jan.

 

So why am i not happy about this whole sorry mess? Well i have not had the chance to fly this thing for a couple of years due to work, lack of a good location to fly it plus a demanding partner. (anyone else been there?) Well a little while back i had a good wake up call with the passing of my younger brother and a couple of close long time mates, so had a long hard look at my life and realised that there are only so many sunsets to see. I spent all this year changing a few things. I semi retired starting a small low stress business, got out of Sydney and moved onto my skydive clubs drop zone. To top it off the limited time on this rock realisation was reinforced in october with the passing of my little sister. Hell am i running on borrowed time here. So for the first time in years i have me, the lazair and a couple of hundred acres all in the same place at the same time. And this happens.

 

So thanks to the incompetents that are responsible for all this mess. The only thing i need to work out now is how to stop having the rest of my life from being pi##ed up against the wall by idiots. I mean like how hard is to just go fly and jump. Suggestions?"

 

Ozzie

 

How many are there in a similar situation - we don't know, but no one should have to go through what Ozzie is going through.

 

I certainly hope the people responsible are held accountable.

 

 

[dodo]

Macca,

 

your posts seem disingenuous. After all, there was no vitriol in your posts, because you were not bitter. Perhaps you were just implanting your seed, or whatever your expertise in hostage taking suggests.

 

In any case, I think people who read forums judge what by the sense, reason, and insight in posts, and discount those with evident bias, or intemperate attitudes.

 

I would be interested if you have some information, or a different and useful perspective to bring to these threads.

 

Otherwise,you seem to distribute abuse, but little else.

 

dodo

 

 

[Spriteah]

Kaz McKenzie street only a few times. Then it shut. The new place was not that fun.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Here's another one, from Slarti:

 

"Then I must be special too ozzie.

 

1 month now and still grounded. I too got the "final notice". The office lady I spoke to said that was an automated process and they couldn't stop them all. She said to ignore it.

 

Not holding out much hope of getting to the Great Eastern. Not even sure of Natfly at this stage.

 

As I fly a Morgan, I might get caught up in the witch hunt. That is - even further than I have already."

 

Bloody disgraceful - what a Christmas present!