President Resigns ** Then Thinks about it **

[Macca274]

I'd get some new "tools"; those failed miserably.

I think not, Turbo, they captured attention as they were designed to do and initiated a firther thought process which in itself is valuable. At times, the role of a "devils advocate" can inspire alternative channels of thought. Shoot the messenger by all means, but in the end - someone has to clean up the mess. Mop and bucket doesn't suit your image. :-)

 

 

[winsor68]

I think not, Turbo, they captured attention as they were designed to do and initiated a firther thought process which in itself is valuable.

This is exactly the intention of these threads Macca. Seems to have worked pretty damn effectively.

 

If not for this site and these threads there would be no "attention" being given to the problems at Ra-Aus.

 

 

[Macca274]

Macca,your posts seem disingenuous. After all, there was no vitriol in your posts, because you were not bitter. Perhaps you were just implanting your seed, or whatever your expertise in hostage taking suggests.

 

In any case, I think people who read forums judge what by the sense, reason, and insight in posts, and discount those with evident bias, or intemperate attitudes.

 

I would be interested if you have some information, or a different and useful perspective to bring to these threads.

 

Otherwise,you seem to distribute abuse, but little else.

 

dodo

The hostage situation was, of course, analagous. Can there be any doubt that the members of the Board do not at this time feel so?

 

 

[drifterdriver]

The hostage situation was, of course, analagous. Can there be any doubt that the members of the Board do not at this time feel so?

Yep

 

 

[Macca274]

This is exactly the intention of these threads Macca. Seems to have worked pretty damn effectively.If not for this site and these threads there would be no "attention" being given to the problems at Ra-Aus.

Bit of anger management planned in the near future, Windsor?

 

 

[winsor68]

Bit of anger management planned in the near future, Windsor?

Are you referring to the bold type?

Not angry Macca... Just perplexed.

 

 

[winsor68]

Bit of anger management planned in the near future, Windsor?

And... I will say... surprised that someone who claims to have been bullied would become the bully. I can't really get my head around this.

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Calm down boys or Santa won't come

 

 

[Macca274]

Are you referring to the bold type?Not angry Macca... Just perplexed.

Yeah - I know what you mean.

 

 

[dodo]

The hostage situation was, of course, analagous. Can there be any doubt that the members of the Board do not at this time feel so?

Was the vitriol also "analagous"?

 

You seem to be using techniques you consider clever, (eg mendacity, or lieing) to make some obscure point.

 

I prefer to state what I think, and I stand by it - or I retract ashamed.

 

I don't retreat via dissembling. I don't pretend something I said is not what I meant.

 

So if you have something to say about grounded aircraft, breaches of legislation, failure to communicate to members, I don't think I would hear truth.

 

The discussions on this forum are often heated, often intemperate, and often ill-considered. But they are rarely deliberately manipulative and dishonest. It is unfortunate for the board that you are defending something, which you cannot define. I think it is likely that readers might connect your approach with the board, which might be unfair to the board.

 

Perhaps I should summarise:

 

I prefer honesty.

 

I am here to discuss the issues with RA, not to spin them, not to manipulate.

 

The issues with RA are serious, especially if you have an aircraft you cannot fly, because RA has failed in one or more of it's basic purposes.

 

You do not appear to be interested in the real issues, but in using your skills for some purpose other than valid discussion.

 

I would remind you of your position that criticism is only allowed for those that have merited it. What merit have you?

 

dodo

 

 

[Macca274]

And... I will say... surprised that someone who claims to have been bullied would become the bully. I can't really get my head around this.

Oh I was never bullied, Winnie - EVER!

 

 

[Macca274]

Was the vitriol also "analagous"?You seem to be using techniques you consider clever, (eg mendacity, or lieing) to make some obscure point.

 

I prefer to state what I think, and I stand by it - or I retract ashamed.

 

I don't retreat via dissembling. I don't pretend something I said is not what I meant.

 

So if you have something to say about grounded aircraft, breaches of legislation, failure to communicate to members, I don't think I would hear truth.

 

The discussions on this forum are often heated, often intemperate, and often ill-considered. But they are rarely deliberately manipulative and dishonest. It is unfortunate for the board that you are defending something, which you cannot define. I think it is likely that readers might connect your approach with the board, which might be unfair to the board.

 

Perhaps I should summarise:

 

I prefer honesty.

 

I am here to discuss the issues with RA, not to spin them, not to manipulate.

 

The issues with RA are serious, especially if you have an aircraft you cannot fly, because RA has failed in one or more of it's basic purposes.

 

You do not appear to be interested in the real issues, but in using your skills for some purpose other than valid discussion.

 

I would remind you of your position that criticism is only allowed for those that have merited it. What merit have you?

 

dodo

There are times, dodo, when I simply can't be arsed - this is one of them.

 

 

[dodo]

There are times, dodo, when I simply can't be arsed - this is one of them.

I did suggest that if you think everything is fine, that you go flying.

 

For myself, I wish to continue flying. So I can "be arsed" by your expression.

 

I think the problems are real. I think they need to be resolved. I am sorry that you "can't be arsed" to address the problems,

 

dodo

 

EDIT removed allegation that might be true but added nothing to the discussion

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I am disappointed you bring nothing to the discussion macca.

 

 

[winsor68]

Oh I was never bullied, Winnie - EVER!

Sorry... I should have said...

 

grossly and unjustifiably scorned, humiliated

etcAnyway this is all off topic Macca...

 

Have a Merry Xmas! (not angry just jovial and a little loud like Santa)

 

 

[ahlocks]

... dissembling.

Excellent choice of words Dodo!

 

 

[drifterdriver]

EDIT removed allegation that might be true but added nothing to the discussion

 

I'm going to use this line in future assuming its not copywrited

 

 

[dodo]

I thought I would get sin-binned as I made a direct allegation of xxxxxx ( x being whatever I wrote). I think it should only be used where you have made an allegation and thought better of it.

 

However...do what you will with it. Only Apple and Samsung think you can own something as brief and obvious as that!

 

dodo

 

 

[Guest sunfish]

Trying to be helpful.

 

A. Board discussions and minutes are generally confidential for a number of very good reasons, Four of which are:

 

(1) Boards need to discuss organisational possibilities, problems, threats and futures that would make the average members hair catch fire. This is normal as part of a Boards function is to insulate members from uncertainty and worry - solving these problems and navigating away from danger.

 

(2) Genuinely private matters have to be discussed, for example the disciplining and perhaps expulsion of members and the hiring, performance and firing of the CEO.

 

(3) Commercially sensitive matters and relationships are discussed and decisions approved.

 

(4) Discussion is often "robust" - it has to be, for example as a CEO I was once asked to prove I was not lying about a matter (which of course I did) because the Board knew that they were liable if I hadn't been telling the truth.

 

Be aware that "he who writes the minutes determines history". For that reason it is best to have a disinterested party (usually the company Secretary) do it consistently.

 

C. Considering B, it is sometimes done to publish a general precis of the latest actions of the Board for the benefit and edification of members.

 

D. Be aware that without transparent, accurate and timely monthly management accounts, together with reasons for variances for the Board to peruse and discuss, the organisation will fail, crash and burn, destroy itself, call it what you will. One of the Boards overarching primary duties is to protect the assets of members or shareholders. They cannot satisfy themselves that they have discharged their duty without monthly accounts. If these are "broken", for want of a better label, then they MUST be fixed immediately, or else. Without them you are flying blind. The statuary accounts are not the same thing.

 

E. The Board does not "manage", let alone micro manage the business. The CEO is the manager, the Board are DIRECTORS. They supervise the CEO and direct him, either approving his courses of action or not approving. In a commercial world, if the Board finds itself catching a CEO out and not approving his proposed actions more than Three times in any year, they will want to be looking for a new CEO.

 

F, If there are "serious irregularities" in accounts - which I wouldn't know, let alone allege, and which I hope is not the case, and the Board suspects foul play and cannot get a satisfactory explanation, then the Board should get legal advice about referring the matter to the police because not reporting a potential offence is itself potentially an offence called "misprision of a felony" under the criminal code and in any case the Directors might be failing in their duty to protect members assets. I include this comment as a caution about Board responsibilities - don't take them lightly or you could end up out of pocket.

 

Oh, and Merry Christmas

 

 

[turboplanner]

You are talking about a Board of Directors, which operate at arms length from a management hierarchy Sunfish. This is not a Board of Directors, but a Committee of Management and so IS the management, who employ about ten employees rather than 50 to 100. Unfortunately someone with an ego renamed the positions, apparently for self gratification, and that has created the confusion.

 

 

[Guest sunfish]

Good luck with that.

 

My yacht club has a similar structure but since we own a company our committee members are also Directors.We make it work. but we have only about 800 members and a turnover around Four million. We also have a strong subcommittee structure - each of which is chaired by a general committee member. The detailed work is done at subcommittee level and the actions proposed are referred to General committee for approval.......and if the general committee overrides the subcommittee then the GC has to find more subcommittee members or do the work again themselves since no one is interested in doing their homework, putting up a closely argued case and seeing it trampled on GC.

 

Does the RAA have a CEO or general manager?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

sunfish you lost me on point B, as in its missing

 

 

[kaz3g]

Too

 

Kaz McKenzie street only a few times. Then it shut. The new place was not that fun.

Too close to the market, too public and too expensive...but the world also changed when XPCA became serious stuff and Freddy didn't help anymore. Merry Christmas, mate.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kgwilson]

Whats wrong with 233? I thought it soothing,reasonable, placid...

Note the time of my post on Christmas Eve. Obviously one eye was not focusing properly or maybe that was 2 eyes.

 

 

[Captain]

Just in case anyone is taking this discussion lightly, playing politics or thinking of applying clever psychology take a read of this, from another thread:"Well it's Christmas eve and still grounded.

 

The mail man did manage to bring a 'final notice' letter from middo today. Lost all the photos i sent them years ago so have to send them a full set. Now i bet the warning plackards (they peeled of the tool box pretty easily with some steam) will be useless as they state AUF and not RAAus, so one would have to think that maybe whoever is running the show could have taken the initiative and included a new set. Why the letter and not email/phone as others had? So it was due on the 1st dec probably won't get done until the second week of jan.

 

So why am i not happy about this whole sorry mess? Well i have not had the chance to fly this thing for a couple of years due to work, lack of a good location to fly it plus a demanding partner. (anyone else been there?) Well a little while back i had a good wake up call with the passing of my younger brother and a couple of close long time mates, so had a long hard look at my life and realised that there are only so many sunsets to see. I spent all this year changing a few things. I semi retired starting a small low stress business, got out of Sydney and moved onto my skydive clubs drop zone. To top it off the limited time on this rock realisation was reinforced in october with the passing of my little sister. Hell am i running on borrowed time here. So for the first time in years i have me, the lazair and a couple of hundred acres all in the same place at the same time. And this happens.

 

So thanks to the incompetents that are responsible for all this mess. The only thing i need to work out now is how to stop having the rest of my life from being pi##ed up against the wall by idiots. I mean like how hard is to just go fly and jump. Suggestions?"

 

Ozzie

 

How many are there in a similar situation - we don't know, but no one should have to go through what Ozzie is going through.

 

I certainly hope the people responsible are held accountable.

So while Ozzie and others still appear to be grounded, the RAA Office has closed until January 7th. That is almost 2 weeks.

 

FYI, I wrote to the Board urging them to keep the office open and process grounded member's paperwork on the working days through this period.

 

My judgement is that in every company in which I have worked over the years in private enterprise, if we had been responsible for anything remotely like these audit failures and the resultant groundings, we would have mobilised a crew and worked the non-public holidays to continue to address the issues.

 

The only excuse for not putting in a special effort over this period is if all of the groundings have been cleared up. If this is not the case at RAA, then in my opinion this is another example of "not good enough" for the members.

 

If members are still grounded while Tizzard has his feet up working off his entitlements during this period, it is almost criminal.