I'm an Earth Angel!

[ayavner]

Hey all,

 

After reading about the angelflight.org outfit in a recent magazine (Australian Flying, from memory) I decided to look into this worthy organisation. After reading the background information and stories on their website, I decided this is something I want to be involved with.

 

Now, I don't have my ticket just yet, but one way I could get involved and get my foot in the door so to speak is by volunteering as an "Earth Angel"... Simply put, the pilots volunteer their time and aeroplane (fees and fuel are reimbursed), but once the person gets to the airport, they still need volunteers to pick them up and take them to or from the hospital or whatever.

 

Anyway, I'm proud to say that I have signed up to be involved in no matter how small a way, and I am sure that one day when I am fortunate enough to be able to fly (and have the requirements met), I will be able to give back by flying some missions to help those in need.

 

Check it out on http://angelflight.org.au

 

cheers

 

 

[Piet Fil]

Good stuff Ayavner, this is what communityis really all about

 

Stand proud

 

Phil

 

 

[J170 Owner]

Good for you! I am in danger of being made redundant within a year and so will be looking at things I can do to keep my sanity and feel worthwhile, that would be something I shall consider.

 

 

[rgmwa]

BIG reservations about what they do.....quasi commercial on private licences...the punters are not informed as to what they are getting into...just my thoughts...

The punters are getting a valuable medical service they would be denied if Angelflight didn't exist, and the pilots should be aware of the limitations of a private licence... just my thoughts...

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Gentreau]

What's the law in Australia regarding private pilots receiving financial compensation for flights ?

 

.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

The punters are getting a valuable medical service they would be denied if Angelflight didn't exist, and the pilots should be aware of the limitations of a private licence... just my thoughts...rgmwa

It is not a medical service, it is a transport service. People will still get the medical services they need, it's how they get there that will differ!As for the operation, there is obviously a need, perhaps we should be questioning our health services!

 

PS: Great work Ayavner!

 

 

[Gentreau]

It is not a medical service, it is a transport service. ....

Doesn't that by definition require the pilot to be a CPL ?

 

 

[rgmwa]

It is not a medical service, it is a transport service. People will still get the medical services they need, it's how they get there that will differ!As for the operation, there is obviously a need, perhaps we should be questioning our health services!

PS: Great work Ayavner!

You're quite right HH. I wasn't as precise with my wording as I should have been. However, I think the organisation does a fine job and those who volunteer their services, planes and cars deserve recognition for their generosity and a job well done.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[rgmwa]

What's the law in Australia regarding private pilots receiving financial compensation for flights ?.

Equal cost sharing by the pilot and passengers is permitted, but if anyone makes a profit out of the flight (parachuting and gliding operations excepted), the flight is classed as aerial work or charter, and the pilot must hold a commercial licence.

rgmwa

 

 

[Gentreau]

Ok, so basically the pilots are donating the fixed cost part and recieving compensation for fuel, which probably works out overall as a bit less than full cost sharing.

 

Sounds like a valuable service too.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Hey all,After reading about the angelflight.org outfit in a recent magazine (Australian Flying, from memory) I decided to look into this worthy organisation. After reading the background information and stories on their website, I decided this is something I want to be involved with.

 

Now, I don't have my ticket just yet, but one way I could get involved and get my foot in the door so to speak is by volunteering as an "Earth Angel"... Simply put, the pilots volunteer their time and aeroplane (fees and fuel are reimbursed), but once the person gets to the airport, they still need volunteers to pick them up and take them to or from the hospital or whatever.

 

Anyway, I'm proud to say that I have signed up to be involved in no matter how small a way, and I am sure that one day when I am fortunate enough to be able to fly (and have the requirements met), I will be able to give back by flying some missions to help those in need.

 

Check it out on http://angelflight.org.au

 

cheers

I do believe naremman does angelflights. Maybe send him a pm for more information.

Pud

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Doesn't that by definition require the pilot to be a CPL ?

No, in short the operator is not conducting the flight for 'hire or reward'.

I'm sure Angel flight and CASA would have had a very close look at the operations and their relationship to the CAR's before they commenced operation, I don't think we need to second guess them!

 

 

[Gentreau]

.....I'm sure Angel flight and CASA would have had a very close look at the operations and their relationship to the CAR's before they commenced operation, I don't think we need to second guess them!

Not trying to second guess, but to understand. It looks like a valuable service that could be run elsewhere.

 

What I wanted to know was if it relied on some Australia specific regulation or derrogation.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Sorry Gentreau I didn't notice your location! Angel Flight is based on the North American organisation of the same name, it could certainly run elsewhere, subject to local laws.

 

 

[Gentreau]

Sorry Gentreau I didn't notice your location!

No worries, you're not alone. Somebody else on here told me to phone my local RAAus rep if I had questions. I'm still waiting to find out who that rep is ........

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

No worries, you're not alone. Somebody else on here told me to phone my local RAAus rep if I had questions. I'm still waiting to find out who that rep is ........

Perhaps you are the local rep!

 

 

[naremman]

BIG reservations about what they do.....quasi commercial on private licences...the punters are not informed as to what they are getting into...just my thoughts...

Cficare, you are well entitled to your opinion, and every organization should be prepared for some scrutiny of its ideals and operations, with no exemption granted for Angel Flight.

 

I have four ladies in my parish, who in the process of dealing with the diagnosis and treatment for cancer, have had the benefit of 40 Angel Flights since July last year, who would most probably wish to offer a strongly worded contrary perspective to the one you hold.

 

Angel Flight can not be seen to be a medical service. CASA was very clear on this issue before Angel Flight got the OK in Australia. If medical treatment is required on a flight, that is outside the boundaries for Angel Flight. Flights for non-emergency passengers to faciltate them attending appointments or treatment is entirely the scope.

 

I hold Advanced Ambulance Care qualifications with St John Ambulance WA, but am precluded from using those skills whilst acting in the capacity as an Angel Flight pilot.

 

A quick check on the Angel Flight website, and viewing the pilot profiles would show that the vast majority of pilots are very well credentialed to conduct the flights. Holding a PPL does not limit the aquisition of sound, or even advanced flying skills. It is possible that a low time CPL may not be able to demonstrate any more capability than a PPL with a few years experience, and an attitude to safety tempered by a few years of maturity. (Sorry if I have offended any newly minted CPLs)

 

No pilot is ever likely to get any financial gain by joining Angel Flight. My first few flights in 2004 were entirely out of my own pocket, but the introduction of fuel for the flights being covered, and the waiving of landing fees was certainly warmly welcomed. Angel Flight pilots are volunteers, and that they are not paid is not because they are worthless, but because they are PRICELESS!

 

The reality is that the provision of an adequate level of health care in regional and remote Australia is under extreme pressure. St John WA figures for country WA are up 23.8% on the preceeding year, RFDS Western Ops are up 13%. WA Country Health has identified that it is short by 70 Doctors in their patch. Angel Flight on its own will not dramatically reduce these figures, but so far in excess of 13,500 flights have been made as a genuine and generous contribution to make the life of those in the bush a bit better.

 

Why am I an Angel Flight pilot. I lost my first wife to breast cancer after a five year battle. We received some great support from our community, and to me Angel Flight is a fantastic opportunity to contribute something back to my community to ackowledge the efforts made to assist us. I have experienced transporting people back to the bush post chemo by both car and aircraft. My opinion is irrelevant. But I certainly have taken note of the feedback from those who I have transported.

 

Ayavner, well done for joining the ranks of the "Earth Angels". That role is vital to the whole operation of Angel Flight. We pilots get the easy job of flying. Tackling the freeways holds far more fears for me than taking flight!!

 

Now Cficare, would you care to detail just what these BIG reservations are that you have?

 

 

[Gentreau]

Thanks very much for giving your perspective naremann. It certainly looks like a valuable service and you have my sincere respect for giving your time and aircraft to it.

 

My questions were solely to understand the legal framework as I know that most CAA's are very uptight about PPL's recieving remuneration for anything. I can see however that since fuel costs represent a minority of the overall costs of operating an aircraft, paying them would not surpass the cost sharing limit, even if you only carry a single passenger.

 

 

[Ferris]

From my observation of Angel Flight pilots, I have yet to see any of them conducting the flights for anything other than altruistic reasons. The pilots still have to supply an aircraft and keep their skills current in order to donate their time. I believe Angel Flight require a minimum of 250 hours PIC. The unfortunate crash of an Angel Flight near Horsham earlier this year will put the organisation under considerable scrutiny, so it may be that pilots will require additional training or supervision. We'll have to wait and see on that one. I guess the benefit for the pilot is that he gets to fly to different places and meet new people at a slightly reduced cost than if he were doing it on his own. In most cases the pilot is still contributing $150 or more per hour out of his own pocket, and the passengers are never asked to contribute a cent. Having been associated with a couple of Angel Flight passengers, I can provide an assurance, that they and their families are extremely grateful.

 

 

[ayavner]

Thanks guys for all the great discussion and warm sentiments. It really does feel good to commit yourself to something like this where you can serve a need right here in your community.

 

To be clear, this has been worked out very precisely between CASA, Angel Flight, and the ATO and they are very careful to tell you you may NOT accept any renumeration from the patients, regardless how well-intentioned as that would jeopardise the organisation's status with the ATO. I am guessing that CASA agreed to the waiving of the landing fees and reimbursement for fuel because even faceless agencies have to show a human side and let's face it, so many people out there have NO realistic way to get from woop-woop to Sydney unless they want to spend 15 hours on a bus.

 

Anyway, hoping to do my first drive some time in mid-December depending on timing.

 

 

[planedriver]

Good on you ayavner:cheers:.

 

I reckon it's a great thing you are doing, and those who receive your contribution of services, will i'm sure, be very appreciative of your generosity.

 

 

[ayavner]

Just got back from doing my first one today - got the pleasure of driving a delightfully chatty, sweet little girl with brittle bones disease and her dad from Bankstown to Westmead Hospital. I find It hard at the moment to put the feeling of joy quite into words, but I am sure I'll find a way. What a great way to spend a Sunday arvo, can't wait to do more and more of these!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Cficare, you are well entitled to your opinion, and every organization should be prepared for some scrutiny of its ideals and operations, with no exemption granted for Angel Flight.I have four ladies in my parish, who in the process of dealing with the diagnosis and treatment for cancer, have had the benefit of 40 Angel Flights since July last year, who would most probably wish to offer a strongly worded contrary perspective to the one you hold.

 

Angel Flight can not be seen to be a medical service. CASA was very clear on this issue before Angel Flight got the OK in Australia. If medical treatment is required on a flight, that is outside the boundaries for Angel Flight. Flights for non-emergency passengers to faciltate them attending appointments or treatment is entirely the scope.

 

I hold Advanced Ambulance Care qualifications with St John Ambulance WA, but am precluded from using those skills whilst acting in the capacity as an Angel Flight pilot.

 

A quick check on the Angel Flight website, and viewing the pilot profiles would show that the vast majority of pilots are very well credentialed to conduct the flights. Holding a PPL does not limit the aquisition of sound, or even advanced flying skills. It is possible that a low time CPL may not be able to demonstrate any more capability than a PPL with a few years experience, and an attitude to safety tempered by a few years of maturity. (Sorry if I have offended any newly minted CPLs)

 

No pilot is ever likely to get any financial gain by joining Angel Flight. My first few flights in 2004 were entirely out of my own pocket, but the introduction of fuel for the flights being covered, and the waiving of landing fees was certainly warmly welcomed. Angel Flight pilots are volunteers, and that they are not paid is not because they are worthless, but because they are PRICELESS!

 

The reality is that the provision of an adequate level of health care in regional and remote Australia is under extreme pressure. St John WA figures for country WA are up 23.8% on the preceeding year, RFDS Western Ops are up 13%. WA Country Health has identified that it is short by 70 Doctors in their patch. Angel Flight on its own will not dramatically reduce these figures, but so far in excess of 13,500 flights have been made as a genuine and generous contribution to make the life of those in the bush a bit better.

 

Why am I an Angel Flight pilot. I lost my first wife to breast cancer after a five year battle. We received some great support from our community, and to me Angel Flight is a fantastic opportunity to contribute something back to my community to ackowledge the efforts made to assist us. I have experienced transporting people back to the bush post chemo by both car and aircraft. My opinion is irrelevant. But I certainly have taken note of the feedback from those who I have transported.

 

Ayavner, well done for joining the ranks of the "Earth Angels". That role is vital to the whole operation of Angel Flight. We pilots get the easy job of flying. Tackling the freeways holds far more fears for me than taking flight!!

 

Now Cficare, would you care to detail just what these BIG reservations are that you have?

There's a current situation resulting from a crash, allegedly after last light, which might well decide what can and can't be done in the future.

 

 

[naremman]

Just got back from doing my first one today - got the pleasure of driving a delightfully chatty, sweet little girl with brittle bones disease and her dad from Bankstown to Westmead Hospital. I find It hard at the moment to put the feeling of joy quite into words, but I am sure I'll find a way. What a great way to spend a Sunday arvo, can't wait to do more and more of these!

Ayavner, a belated, well deserved commendation for your first "Earth Angel" role. That you enjoyed the experience is clearly evident, and your comments are great advocacy for what Angel Flight can achieve.

 

It is great that we can use our aviation related skills in such a beneficial and positive manner. The people we deal with still have to travel down the road, but having someone to stand either alongside, or behind them certainly is comforting.

 

With the insight that you have gained I hope, that it in a small way provides some motivation as you progress with your flying to be one day piloting an Angel Flight.

 

Once again, well done mate.

 

 

[ayavner]

Thanks naremman... did my second one this Sunday past, young gentleman with Cerebral palsy and his mum. I can only hope in my wildest dreams that I can one day join those ranks.. i'm working on it!

 

thanks again :)