RAAus General Meeting Called

[nomadpete]

But, Ian, all that you describe above still means that the success you and Lee had here, was a work - around for a defective communication process that RAAus had even back then. As you say, it went downhill after that. Probably because the noncommunicative culture was already started and was/is progressed by less open people over a period of time (the monkey metaphor comes to mind). At present, RAAus already has its own web site capable of doing what you suggest. If only we could get somebody to arrange for the web site to be dragged into the 21st century, and updated. It is woefully poorly maintained. Just look at the dead links and out of date stuff on it. It still tells us that Don is the treasurer, for heaven's sake!

 

Communication and transparency, directly from RAAus please!

 

This is not intended to denegrate your site, Ian. It should still have its own part to play no matter what.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Ian: An MOA/Membership agreement could include a code of practice and the rules of engagement. Sad that this is now necessary, but thats the way things are going. However with some simple base rules its amazing how trust can return

 

Pete

 

 

[Admin]

I have to be careful what I say based on experience and knowledge compared to a perceived bias however, and I have said on other occasions, having that experience dealing with all you 'kind' folk over many many years I can say that what you are proposing is not the answer, it is an alternative, but a bad one promoted by those that have no idea or experience sitting in this chair. I would be amiss if I didn't say anything but you will go from the frying pan into the fire not to mention the overhead costs both financially and on the RAAus office staff which becomes an extra employee cost and I will be paying for it with another increase in fees...I welcome anyone to come here and sit in this chair for 1 single day. This is the last I will say on it but in closing I would strongly urge thought to be given on perhaps a better direction then to go down the same path as before and let history repeat itself...that's it from me on this subject

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Peronal view:-

 

I would prefer that people had to post under their real names. hiding behind a nom de plume and knowing that unless a court order is produced Ian wont tell people who you really are allows behaviours that are well in excess of the behaviours that would be evident in a face to face equivalent.

 

Would that mean people were more careful about what they said? Probably but is that a bad thing?

 

Would we end up with cheque book justice where peopel were stiffled by bullys with large bank balances, quite possibly?

 

That all said, We are fighting against secrecy in the board/exec of RAAus and to a degree (not the same degree by any stretch!) we are hiding behind some secrecy of our own.

 

I like to think what I have to say is no different on here than what I would say face to face if put in that position, but then again I have puit my real name and address and phone and email up enough times that people know who I really am if they need to.

 

If RAAus was to establish a forum then I cant see any reason why it would be done in a way that people could post anonomously.....

 

What do others think?

 

Andy

 

 

[fly_tornado]

bad idea. the RAA does not appreciate criticism and has demonstrated with Ian when they know who the individual is that they will use what ever means to harass them.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

bad idea. the RAA does not appreciate criticism and has demonstrated with Ian when they know who the individual is that they will use what ever means to harass them.

I think you are comparing 2 different things:-

 

1) The RAAus you talk of, is in my opinion dysfunctional and we want that to change

 

2) Ian, because of the anonyomous posts became their single point of focus..... he took the heat for things posted which he may not even personally have agreed with....

 

Andy

 

 

[turboplanner]

Nine days to go and there is no Agenda (other than the hidden Agendas), no formal list of concerns for people to get their minds around and vote on, no target list of outcomes, no strategy, no plans on who will raise what, no anticipation and reaction plan for a repeat of the AGM etc.

 

Better get a move on if you want to achieve something; there will be other times for the grand plans and policies.

 

There's going to be a lot of disappointed people if after spending a heap of travel and accommodation money everyone just stands around hoping someone else will say something or be able to cope with the answers, raise necessary points of order etc.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

off the top of my head...

 

Resignation of secretary and treasurer.

 

Sanctions against Myles and Gavin for misuse of the RAA email

 

Election of the new President, treasurer and secretary.

 

Organising a bi-election for N.QLD rep position

 

Establishment of an online/electronic process for tracking aircraft registrations. < removal of paper based system.

 

Establishment of a transparent appeals process in regards aircraft grounding.

 

if these get through the RAA is fixed.

 

 

[Admin]

and a Constitution Reform Committee be initiated away from RAAus Committee intervention (except for 1 representative person)

 

(and personally...a mutually beneficial working relationship be formed between RAAus and Recreational Flying...tongue in cheek)

 

 

[nomadpete]

Nine days to go and there is no Agenda (other than the hidden Agendas), no formal list of concerns for people to get their minds around and vote on, no target list of outcomes, no strategy, no plans on who will raise what, no anticipation and reaction plan for a repeat of the AGM etc.Better get a move on if you want to achieve something; there will be other times for the grand plans and policies.

 

There's going to be a lot of disappointed people if after spending a heap of travel and accommodation money everyone just stands around hoping someone else will say something or be able to cope with the answers, raise necessary points of order etc.

TP. Numerous posters have suggested starting points to prompt members to build a strategy. This is clearly essential in order to prevent the GM from degenerating into a mud slinging match. None of us wish to waste this opportunity to bring about a positive change in RAAus . My hope is that groups have got together to nut out their particular strategy and questions and motions to use at the meeting. Most are reluctant to put their plans on an open forum because they fear that it would only give the less functional board members some advantage, or bring about more destructive vitriol from certain individuals. So long as the focus remains on keeping it simple as possible, we will come out of it well. No need to reinvent the whole system, just address what matters most.

 

 

[coljones]

and a Constitution Reform Committee be initiated away from RAAus Committee intervention (except for 1 representative person)... snip...

You do need someone from the board acting as a conduit/mentor/fix it person/lets's see what the lawyers think about this/excuse me board we think we are doing it wrong type stuff.

I was appalled that there was no-one to step up to the task after Don resigned.

 

What does the board think it does other than drink coffee. If they don't have the time to do SOME work they really shouldn't be on the board as the job requires work and commitment to roll up the sleeves

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Turbo

 

The group Im a part of, being a small subset of the total attendees intend to ask the following questions as a minimum. They arent necessarily inthe order we will ask:-

 

1. Why did Steve Runciman retain the position of President after he had resigned as member from NQLD and the Board. Once Steve Runciman resigned the only way he can be on the Board is by election by NQLD members.

 

2. What is the written brief given to the lawyers regarding Runciman’s reinstatement and what was the written reply from the lawyer? While Runciman’s position is in any way unclear and, prima facie invalid, why has Runciman not stood aside from the position of President until it can be clarified by formal legal opinion?

 

3. How did RA-Aus fail CASA Audits 4 times? (and what is left to be done to complete and pass any final audit)

 

4. Why did RA-Aus, not rectify the 1st audit matters over three subsequent audits?

 

5. Why did the Board fail to call tender for insurance broking services when last tender was for a 12 month period and awarded in 2008?

 

6. Why did the Board fail to have adequate insurance in place thereby putting the assets of the members at risk ?

 

7. Why did the Secretary fail to release the minutes of AGM as per legal requirements ?

 

8. Why did the Secretary fail to provide an accurate record of the 2012 AGM ?

 

9. Why did the treasurer fail to provide audited accounts to the 2012 AGM in the time frames stipulated by law ?

 

10. Why is the Board and Executive displaying blatant disregard for association’s constitution? For example, Runcimen resignation, Financial reports to AGM, Minutes of AGM to be distributed as per the constitution and Government requirements?

 

11. Why did the Board fail to sanction CEO for blatant disregard to their instructions regarding Jnr flyers ?

 

12. How did the Board and Executive and CEO fail to maintain systems in place to comply with CASA's requirements ?

 

13. Why has the board to manage the aircraft registration crisis in an unprofessional manner ? (ie, refusing to give priority to the importers and manufacturers of aircraft in this country who contribute thousands of dollars each year as sponsors of Natfly and other flyins)?

 

14. Who told office staff to lie to members about the registration embargo, telling members instead it was a computer glitch?

 

15. Who decided to suspend the sending of initial notices of registration renewal out to members with no notice to the member that they were suspended? Was any consideration given to the chances of a member flying unregistered and uninsured as a consequence? Was this discussed with CASA given it is one of the core obligations in our deed of arrangement?

 

16. Communications to members are currently short and political in nature. They are not of the full and frank disclosure that members should expect. Why not and what will be done to rectify the current situation.

 

Many other issues that have been brought to our attention which include:

 

1. Failure to provide importers and owners with adequate forms and checklists to register aircraft

 

2. failure of board and executive & CEO reform the confusing and conflicting Opps manual, staff reports (reports to board, to executive, to CEO, to General Manager)

 

3. Actions of Executive and CEO in bringing RAA into disrepute in contravention of the constitution

 

4. Failure to keep proper records for a/c.

 

5. Failure by Executive to engage in a professional manner in the replacement process of the CEO (after knowing about the requirement, after two months and less than a week to go before closing, no job description exists)

 

6. Failure by Executive to engage in a professional manner in the replacement process of the Technical Manager (after knowing about the requirement, after two months and less than a week to go before closing, no job description exists)

 

7. Failure of the remainder of the board to oversight the actions and inaction of the Executive and CEO and bring about the necessary action.

 

8. With regard to Runciman’s statement on the ABC’s AM program where Runciman told AM that ‘some renewal notices weren’t sent out in advance, but told AM that it was only a small number and only in November.

 

9. The estimated cost of $ 70,000 loss of income for the financial year on aircraft registrations

 

10. Membership numbers reported at the AGM were obviously wrong and have been subsequently corrected. However how is it possible that the board don’t have a closer understanding of the rough size of the organisation and can get this so wrong without recognizing a nearly 40% error.

 

11. Why have membership numbers reported to CASA been wrong in addition to those in 10. Above

 

12. How can we be sure that the membership count sent to our members liability insurer are accurate an haven’t created an artificial increase in cost for the members.

 

13. The issues raised in 10,11 and 12 above all result from a core database on which everything else sit. The failures suggests that our compute tools are suboptimal and in need of major overhaul, why do we have in excess of $1.3m sitting in the bank while inefficient and unreliable or difficult to use tools are still deployed in the organisation?

 

I have the promised accurate membership counts for the last 5 years due to be delivered to me next Tuesday morning after discussing this with Middo who advised that this was not a simple request and there was quite a few hours of work involved. (see 13. above!) When I have those numbers and have done some basic analysis against teh last 5 years financials we can get a view of teh annual cost per head of running RAAus. Depending on what that throws up there may well be more questions tabled..

 

As for motions, the group Im in have no preformed motions ready to put to the meeting, rather we will put motions as a function of the answers recieved to he questions asked and IAW our obligations against the constitution, the underlying act, and the concepts of natural Justice.

 

Others who attend may well have their own agenda's

 

Andy

 

 

[nomadpete]

Andy,

 

There is absolutely no point in asking all those "WHY" questions (except that it would be satisfying to know why) UNLESS there is a little flow chart attached to each question. That is so that a positive outcome can be made to result from information revealed by the answer. So if an answer was "we didn't know at the time" What are your options to rectify that? It might be a motion to change a process or it might be another question.

 

That is the kind of strategy that must be down on paper prior to the GM. If we leave it to be done on the fly, the meeting will ramble on without acheiving any of the positive outcomes we desire.

 

Remember that the meeting cannot go on forever, we need to keep to a strict set of agendas in order to fit as much as we can into the available time.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Andy,There is absolutely no point in asking all those "WHY" questions (except that it would be satisfying to know why) UNLESS there is a little flow chart attached to each question. That is so that a positive outcome can be made to result from information revealed by the answer. So if an answer was "we didn't know at the time" What are your options to rectify that? It might be a motion to change a process or it might be another question.

That is the kind of strategy that must be down on paper prior to the GM. If we leave it to be done on the fly, the meeting will ramble on without acheiving any of the positive outcomes we desire.

 

Remember that the meeting cannot go on forever, we need to keep to a strict set of agendas in order to fit as much as we can into the available time.

Yeah, Agree and we have done much of that, the Questions are listed so that others know the scope of the ground we are going to look at and to counter the position that there is no prework done. That is not the case.

BTW its worth making the point I talk about a group Im part of, its just a group of like minded members.There is no hierarchy and no individual leader, none of us see our team as an alternate board for example and I can guarentee with absolute certainty that such a proposition (despite being unconstitutional) wont come from us. At teh end of teh day we want RAAus back on the rails and moving towards a better place, that is all. There is no secret agenda, that Im aware of.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Not much use asking how and why, this will all come to light with a new exec in place as they wade through the mess at a later date.

 

I'd very much prefer a motion of 'no confidence' in the Exec and remove them from the Exec and board, never to stand again.

 

Give the remaining elected board the chance to stay or resign. Then organise the elections to replace them.

 

If you start firing off questions then they will just give off a load of spin. I believe we all know they have been up to no good and the only cure is to remove them.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Steve,

 

If what happened to my 34 questions on notice to the AGM is any example of spin, then what you say is correct.

 

The difference this time is this meeting is being called specifically for this purpose and the entire Board will be examined collectively and individually by the membership.

 

If any spin is applied it will be challenged, the meeting will NOT tolerate any attempt by the Board to say "we will take this question on notice and reply later ..." .

 

The Board are aware of the purpose of this meeting otherwise they would not be attempting to 'silence' motions from the floor as the WA and Qld reps have recently attempted to do by discrediting those of us who have called the meeting, directly alleging we are 'detractors' .

 

 

[dazza 38]

I reckon the Exec would be just about shitting themselves at this point in time as date of the love fest draws closer.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Steve,If what happened to my 34 questions on notice to the AGM is any example of spin, then what you say is correct.

The difference this time is this meeting is being called specifically for this purpose and the entire Board will be examined collectively and individually by the membership.

 

If any spin is applied it will be challenged, the meeting will NOT tolerate any attempt by the Board to say "we will take this question on notice and reply later ..." .

 

The Board are aware of the purpose of this meeting otherwise they would not be attempting to 'silence' motions from the floor as the WA and Qld reps have recently attempted to do by discrediting those of us who have called the meeting, directly alleging we are 'detractors' .

David,

 

check your mail, you have an 'open cheque' so i'll trust your judgement. My view is that there should be at least three positions vacant after the meeting. Happy hunting.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Steve,

 

Do you mean physical mail or email?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Steve,Do you mean physical mail or email?

Snail mail you gonna have to walk to the front gate. sent last night.

 

 

[Sloper]

Goodaye all

 

First off l better say l am not a member of the RAA.

 

But its future is important as l have a family of junior flyers.

 

But can l make a suggestion that a member well versed in the constitution (preferably a legal type) be able to intervene on members behalf about the running of the meeting and ensure that qeustions and answers are delt with correctly.

 

l would almost suggest a recording of the meeting be made with all aware it is being so, just so nothing gets lost in the minutes.

 

The "chair person" should be made aware that a eye is kept on procedings and it is expected that all parties adhere to the\ there constitional duties.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

sorry double post

 

 

[Guernsey]

There will be a few Go-pro cameras at the meeting Bruce.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Brian F]

TurboThe group Im a part of, being a small subset of the total attendees intend to ask the following questions as a minimum. They arent necessarily inthe order we will ask:-

 

13. Why has the board to manage the aircraft registration crisis in an unprofessional manner ? (ie, refusing to give priority to the importers and manufacturers of aircraft in this country who contribute thousands of dollars each year as sponsors of Natfly and other flyins)?

 

Hi Andy, I agree with all of your groups point except no. 13. Why does your group think it is unprofessional refusing to give priority to importers and manufacturers. Do you think they are more deserving than ordinary members who's registration has expired? They are in it to make a buck, i am in it to

 

enjoy flying, I pay my registration and membership and i was grounded for 2 months. How long does your group think i should wait while importers and manufacturers get priority? I realise the may contribute to natfly ect. but if the rest of us have to line up behind them for reg. renewal they may be the

 

only ones there.

[Brian F]

Hope my post above is not confusing not sure how i did that.