RAAus General Meeting Called

[Gentreau]

...................everyone will see it differently, but for me those who use RAAus to put the vegemite on the table such as flying instructors or some importers need renewal before i do. Me not flying is a pain, the family needing government support to subsist is very much a different thing. ....................

There is perhaps a case for giving some priority to importers, as any problems discovered with their documentation could have a knock-on effect on many individual members. I know one could say that the importer should have the right documents, but if they were never asked for them in the past, why would they have them to hand now ?

 

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[Powerin]

PROXY FORM BELOW

 

I have separated the proxy form (Appendix A) from the constitution into a separate file. It is attached below.

 

To get your very own proxy form download the attached file and print it out.

 

Read Part 30 of the Constitution shown below.

 

Decide who you would like to represent you.

 

Fill the proxy form out and send it.

 

Easy!

 

30. Appointment of proxies.(i) Each member shall be entitled to appoint another member as proxy by notice given to the Secretary no later than 24 hours before the time of the meeting in respect of which the proxy is appointed.

 

(ii) The notice appointing the proxy shall be in the form set out in Appendix A.

raaus_proxy.pdf

 

raaus_proxy.pdf

 

raaus_proxy.pdf

[Brian F]

I got it, Brian. It is simply the pragmatic approach to take because the financial risk of letting down the importers and manufacturers is immediate and severe. RAAus already has enough damage control operations running - either in the courts or potential/pending - and individual members will not be well served if the whole show goes broke.

 

kaz

Kaz,

I did not realise that court actions were in progress over this issue, I just wouldn't like to see importers, manufacturers ect. getting priority while the the ordinary members go to the end of the que. the pace that registrations are being processed we could be waiting a long time.

 

 

[Brian F]

times getting tight....if u really reckon u want to make a difference...either..turn up on the day ....or...get a proxy in now!

already organised.

 

 

[Spriteah]

Gents and ladies, Or Ladies and Gents, If any of you have signed a proxy form and believe you have not been correctly informed then I urge you to contact the proxy holder and remove your authority. I would strongly suggest your also express your concerns if you were not correctly informed and attach the email to others including board members such as myself. If you are in this predicament please email or call me if you want further advice. Email: [email protected] or phone 0403 22 8986.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian State Rep and RAA board member

 

 

[Spriteah]

Brian F.

 

I would like to declare that I have and will continue to push that commercial operations get priority over other flyers to get aircraft back in the air. In fact I pushed this issue to a vote when my posts on the official website worked and it got through just (now I cannot post at times, another story that is).

 

My reasons are simple, some lively hoods will rely on commercial operations and the implications of not getting them flying first could have a greater detriment on individuals and in the future the continuance of the RAA.

 

If you want to discuss this point feel free to call me.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Mobile 0403 22 8986

 

 

[Gentreau]

Jim, its Receational aviation.....not commercieal vs private... everyone deserves to be registered...on time..

But somebody has to train pilots to allow them to enjoy that recreation......

 

.

 

 

[Spriteah]

CFI I call it damage control. Keep in mind if we fail in our core duties we open ourselves upto civil action. If we lose money to civil action the members will pay. John Smith who is grounded will be unhappy. K Packer who loses significant money and ownes a flying school will attempt to recover that money from the authority being the RAA. The RAA might then increase fees to cover K Packers claim against the RAA.

 

So if the majority of members think that commercial operations should not get priority then please email me or call me. Because I think they need to get up and flying first, I think that is now complete already but can be corrected. The flying schools will create more flyers, more income, less fees to RAA members.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Jim, its Receational aviation.....not commercieal vs private... everyone deserves to be registered...on time..

Your right thats what they deserve......but didn't get....and is part of why we meet shortly.

 

so having not got it, what then? I don't argue that every commercial operator needs priority treatment but i would like to think that if someone was about to fold there tent and was prepared to declare and substantiate that we could help them avoid that.

 

anyway its mute because we are where we are and i have it from those that know that the backlog is shortly to disappear....don't know if that includes the really problematic types or not..... It will happen quite some time though after we were told all is good.

 

andy

 

 

[dazza 38]

I dont have a problem with schools etc getting priority.Its like this, somebodies inconvenience compared to someones livelihood

 

 

[Brian F]

Brian F.I would like to declare that I have and will continue to push that commercial operations get priority over other flyers to get aircraft back in the air. In fact I pushed this issue to a vote when my posts on the official website worked and it got through just (now I cannot post at times, another story that is).

 

My reasons are simple, some lively hoods will rely on commercial operations and the implications of not getting them flying first could have a greater detriment on individuals and in the future the continuance of the RAA.

 

If you want to discuss this point feel free to call me.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Mobile 0403 22 8986

Jim, Is it a case of if you are not in it for a dollar your problem is not as important .... get to the back of the line? or is there something else going on that i am not aware of? because the point that the future of raa seems to be in jeopardy if commercial interests are not a priority seems to be coming up a bit.

 

 

[Stearman]

I agree that priority must be given to those trying to make a living. There is no such thing as a quick buck or easy living in RAAus training or selling / manufacturing aircraft. RAAus has no right to make it any harder for these people.

 

Don't forget without these people RAAus cannot grow.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Jim

 

Equal rights means EQUAL rights. I don't see how preference can be given to anyone on any grounds (be it commercial,political, race etc etc) You are entitled to your opinion but I couldn't disagree more. This approach could be more diversive then constructive.

 

 

[Gentreau]

Jim, Is it a case of if you are not in it for a dollar your problem is not as important .... get to the back of the line? or is there something else going on that i am not aware of? because the point that the future of raa seems to be in jeopardy if commercial interests are not a priority seems to be coming up a bit.

Brian, I think the current situation is unusual to say the least. As said by Andy above, normally everyone should be treated equally, but this is not a normal situation. I think a little empathy for those who try to make their living out of Recreation flying is in order. Without them, you would have much less choice for training, and you would be stuck with a very small number of flyable aircraft types.

 

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[Brian F]

Brian, I think the current situation is unusual to say the least. As said by Andy above, normally everyone should be treated equally, but this is not a normal situation. I think a little empathy for those who try to make their living out of Recreation flying is in order. Without them, you would have much less choice for training, and you would be stuck with a very small number of flyable aircraft types..

Gentreau, I do feel for these people, maybe raa should have had extra people working on commercial members without delaying process for ordinary

members, I just dont get the the idea of priority treatment for some at the expense of others, surely we are all entitled to have our aircraft registered just the same. I understand this is not a normal situation but is this how it is going to be when the s..t his the fan next time? Is it a good idea to have commercial

 

interests a priority in any situation in the future?

 

 

[coljones]

You can print one for yourself fill it out, scan it and email it.

Part of the problem with RAA at the moment appears to be failure to establish or follow process. Process can be a pain in the bum but it ensures that when your rego is due the authorities send out your renewal with sufficient lead time for things to happen, followed by the registeree doing some stuff and sending money whereupon the registrar registers your vehicle and updates the data base so the cops won't pull you over. A failure of either the process or a failure to follow the process causes all sorts of problems.

In the case of GMs there is also a process. It starts with a requisition for the meeting and ends when the minutes are sent out followed by their acceptance at the next following GM. Integral to that process is the notice and the proxy form.

 

RAA has a number of problems: to establish process and to follow process and this is the main reason that the GM was requisitioned in the first place.

 

Among other things proxy forms should have been circulated in some fashion - a failure of process.

 

 

[cazza]

Brian, the questions that are posted as part of a group discussion are not the 'groups position'. These questions come from all kinds of members and we just put them down- document them, to indicate what is going through people's minds. The one about priorities for manufacturers comes from a person who has seen how many thousands of dollars our importers , manufacturers pay to support Natfly, and other flyins, they spend their dollars advertising in our magazines, they spend dollars supporting member workshops (maintenance workshops for example). It is just a question, and one that has differences of opinion -obviously. Also, the flying schools provide us with members so we have an organisation.

 

Cazza

 

 

[dodo]

Question:

 

After a car crash, what do you do first?

 

Correct answers:

 

1 the best you can in the circumstances, whatever they may be; and

 

2 don't crash,and you don't need to answer the questiuon

 

Once you are in a mess,you have to deal with it as best you can. My observation during a short period was that RA was never equipped in process or staffing to deal with that amount of registration work. And that seems reasonable. When you get asked to prove every registration is OK, and the files show many/most have minor or major issues, you need a serious number of people with a serious knowledge of obscure aviation law.

 

The simple answer is don't get into a mess like that.

 

But for those arguing priorities, or just demanding RA hire a few more, I suggest you tell me

 

what the right MTOW is for a 19 reg, with an explanation of your answer?

 

which countries we accept a type certificate from, under which conditions?

 

who is the authority for a 55 rego?

 

These are in some ways silly questions,but if you think we can just hire more staff for a couple of weeks, the answer is no.

 

Again, get it right over the years and you don't have a problem. Get asked to justify everything, you are in a mess.

 

As for priorities,they were probably made on the run. The only bits I saw were people trying to minimise damage - a call to FTFs to tell them that if they were being badly affected to call.

 

I think priorities after the fact and reacting to a crisis are not the issue.

 

dodo

 

 

[Gentreau]

.......I understand this is not a normal situation but is this how it is going to be when the s..t his the fan next time? .........

There's the reason for the meeting on 9th february in one sentance. Surely the purpose is to ensure that the fan remains free of merde for ever more. N'est-ce pas?

 

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[dodo]

Rather than edit my post again, one more point:

 

after a debacle like this, should a board:

 

a) micromanage the crisis; or

 

b) take responsibility, and work out what went wrong, while allowing the administration to work through the issues?

 

dodo

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Lets try a couple of simple calcs. It takes about one hour on average to go through a file with a fine tooth comb. There are about 3,500 aircraft and every single file must be checked and signed off by CASA. We have had this problem of suspended registrations since 6 Nov 2012 - almost 3 months. The first question that comes to my mind is why do we still have a problem after all this time? If the right resources were assembled and applied, surely 3,500 manhours of work could have been done by now.

 

Even though we had no CASA approved person available to pass regos for weeks, we could have had files being corrected while waiting for him to turn up. Since then we've had one fellow who is retired and comes to work when the spirit moves him, say 3 or 4 days a week, if we are lucky. At his age and stage, he's not into 12 hour days and who could blame him for that?

 

We have an excellent resource in Dean Tompkins (an L4) putting in way above and beyond the call of duty. Without Dean we would be nowhere and have no prospects of getting out of this mess.

 

What was needed on Nov 7, the day after CASA suspended registrations by RA-Aus, was for the Exec to come clean and tell the members "we have a problem". But, somebody instead thought it could be fixed in a week and ordered the staff to tell anyone who enquired that the delay on their rego was "a computer glitch". Lying to the members is badge of "honour" somebody in very high RA-Aus office must wear or have pinned on them. Seems it couldn't have been our illustrious former CEO because Runciman thanked him with high praise for his "tremendous effort, loyalty and devotion to duty displayed during his time in office." Could it have been Runciman, Middleton or Reid? I can't imagine it was Eugene as he flies a bit "hands off" as Treasurer and has not often been seen off the Apple Isle in recent months. I guess we might never know as I doubt any of them have the guts to come clean and apologise to the members for that one.

 

From Nov 7, the day after CASA pulled the pin, the Board Exec needed to be measuring the size of the problem - they should have come to an answer like 3,500 manhours. So, let's keep the calcs coming. One experienced person who knows the Tech Manual backwards, can do at best about 40 effective manhours per 5 day week (50 hours at work less breaks and interruptions). New registrations, transfers and renewals come in at 15 to 20 per working day. With one good person on the job, you will go backwards very quickly. Say 40 files cleared in a week and up to 100 per week requiring attention.

 

If you had 5 good people hard at it and well supported, you might get to 200 aircraft per week and in about 17 working weeks, you would have cleared every aircraft in RA-Aus's books. 17 weeks is of course a bit over 4 months. Would it be reasonable for this crap to drag on for 17 weeks? Not in my book! With the right management effort this issue could have been sorted by last Christmas. It would have been expensive but, believe me, stringing it out for many, many months is going to cost the members of RA-Aus a hell of a lot more.

 

But wait, there's only one CASA approved person available to sign off. Is that OK? Can anything be done about that? Could we show CASA after the first 500 were done that we are on top of the issue and allow say 5 of the best RA-Aus people to sign off the regos? The Board haven't told anyone but I hear that they are attempting to supplement Norm Probert's efforts with RA-Aus people.

 

I'm not suggesting that any of this is easy but I am saying a much bigger management effort was required and simply not done and it seems is still not being done. Rolling your sleeves up and getting stuck in may be admirable but it does not solve the problem in a reasonable time frame. The hard work that needed to be done involved applying management skills not processing aircraft files.

 

And the whole time the members have had to live in a partial information vacuum surviving on titbits posted on the RA-Aus website. Nothing meaningful of course, just platitudes like "we're winning the battle".

 

Alf.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Sprite is right ©

 

Members have to step back and take a strategic view on this.

 

If a flying school goes belly up that means that all the members in its catchment (and that can mean up to three or four hours radius are without access to training, bfr's and supervisory influence.

 

By contrast, the members fly for recreation so there's no financial penalty on them

 

 

[Brian F]

Sprite is right ©Members have to step back and take a strategic view on this.

 

If a flying school goes belly up that means that all the members in its catchment (and that can mean up to three or four hours radius are without access to training, bfr's and supervisory influence.

 

By contrast, the members fly for recreation so there's no financial penalty on them

A flying school owner is partially to blame for all this, it just pisses me of to think he would get priority while the rest go to the end of the line.

 

 

[Bandit12]

I would be very concerned if I had invested a considerable amount of money and relied on my own flying school to eat. You have to look after the schools, at the end of the day someone has chosen to put their hard earned dollars on the line and as Turbs suggested, without the flying school a considerable number of people won't be able to continue their sport anyway.

 

Without members, there is no organisation. Without accessible services, there are no members.

 

 

[frank marriott]

We can't even agree here on what should happen

 

Can't wait for the AGM to see who stands and then who is elected. That will be the true measure of support or otherwise of individuals ideas.

 

Frank