Are you grounded?

[Guest Andys@coffs]

People

 

We smell a rat with the Boards communications which suggests (without actually saying so) that we are well on the way to nirvana with regards the groundings. We would like to understand what sort of percentage of the fleet is grounded.

 

By my calcs based on what I believe is credible info the total of "renewal registration grounded" aircraft should be under 300 but there has been a report of 1000 which I have trouble understanding, As such I would like to get an idea of how impacted the forum members are.

 

If you used to be grounded and all is Ok now can you share the details as a seperate post (no more question options available to me) I would really like to know if people are getting renewals done

 

Please dont vote if you dont own an aircraft, A grounded club aircraft might affect 10 people which will skew the results.

 

 

[winsor68]

I am guessing that the "Makeup" of grounded aircraft will include many where the owners are unaware... as in their next rego will NOT go through.

 

Most of these aircraft are perfectly airworthy... the problem as I see it is LSA (don't go there at all until CASA sorts their end out)... and 25 aircraft or similar which are now on the 19 register and similar.... and 10 rego aircraft without accurate TDPs.(remember them!!! Was a BIG call out a few years ago to get them sorted that doesn't appear to have been sorted)...

 

It is probably bigger than this but based upon what I have seen with my own eyes this is the problem...

 

Many of our members are perhaps unaware that their aircraft is potentially going to be grounded soon... and the chances are that without some serious regulatory/leeway type situation I don't think it will have a good ending if DRASTIC action is not taken.

 

 

[Zibi]

I guess that I got through in the last minute.

 

I registered my new trike in the begging of October and there were already some delays, although I don't know what was wrong back then as it was Airborne (manufacturer) doing the rego process for me.

 

I guess if I had bought my trike any later I'd probably be looking at what it takes to get into HGFA and register it there.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So, as at the time I write this we have 18 still registered and 3 grounded. Therefore 3/(18+3) *3600 should give us grounded fleet size or 514........still 3 is probably too small a sample size to draw any real conclussions at this time......

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

And again, 23 Ok, 4 not Ok so 533....... 4 as sample size is still too small though (although I bet the 4 owners wont see it that way!!!!)

 

 

[turboplanner]

There's a saying in politics: "Never ask a question unless you know the answer". This poll is not going to reach about 12,500 people, so it will only be a sample of grounded planes from about 100 people, and will be wildly skewed towards "grounding? Not a problem!"

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Turb's your right Id love a definitve answer...any idea who I could get that from? seeing as the board either dont know or sure arent saying! I have answers from a number of sources that I personally believe that are at odds with other numbers that have been disclosed. So while I absolutely agree that this is hardly a scientific experiment its worth asking the question just so people can understand the ratio. As I said above 4 out of 27 aircraft are grounded....if only lotto had those odds!!! (then the payout would be a dollar not a $m)....4 out of 27 suggests that if you are still flying then unless something changes that is likely to change!

 

The exec Im sure has put off the GM in the hope that things will get better between now and then and peoples rage at what is happening will dull with time, thats the Aussie Psych. My intent here is to remind people as we creep towards February that all is not well and it could be you next week!!

 

While its probably true that the rage of those that are grounded wont cool so fast those among the larger majority today that arent grounded will cool unless we continually remind them that ther are others that through no fault of there own are not as lucky (and thats all it is Luck!)

 

Andy

 

 

[Eric McCandless]

I am grounded (Jabiru J170 24-7021). My rego expired Wed 28 Nov. I was due to do my 2nd solo nav last weekend but could not fly.

 

I paid my renewal on-line on 11 Nov, but it has not yet been renewed to date.

 

I called RAAus on Wed 28th and was told to check back on Fri 30th. I also received an email on Wed as follows: "Your payment has been received in the office however due to Casa restrictions all aircraft are being audited before the renewal is being processed, you will be advised if there is anything that is required on your aircraft file. We are working on getting these done as quickly as possible.".

 

When I rang on Fri 30th, they said they could not give an estimate of when my file would be reviewed. I was told they had a huge backlog and were hoping it would be cleared by Xmas. Eric.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Wow! You got an email! We tried paying our rego 6th Nov and had various excuses and dates - they checked our email was still current, but we are still waiting for the email. Our plane was with a flying school, but the CFI recently decided to "retire". Regardless, it is still a very poor showing.

 

Sue

 

 

[Riley]

Attached is but one of my feeble attempts to extract a response (any bloody response) from our illustrious relevant Board member. Despite the fact that, if successful I'd be shooting myself (and the rest of the members) in the foot, whaddaya reckon my chances are? I'm getting more & more pissed off by the minute which isn't a good look because pissed off people traditionally make irrational decisions.

 

Attn: Eugene Reid, Treasurer, RAA.Although annual aircraft registration fees have been accepted by RAA, I continue to be unable to operate my newly purchased aircraft since 6 Nov, 2012, due to an RAA admin deficiency. Accordingly, please acknowledge and confirm that (assuming this mess is cleared up by Oct next), I am entitled to deduct from next year's registration, a sum of $0.51 ($185 annual rego fee divided by 365 days) for each day that my aircraft sits on the ground because of this Catch 22 situation.

 

Details are:

 

Aircraft Rego Number 24-5210 (Aeronaca Champ)

 

Aircraft Purchaser/Owner RJ Shanks (Member # 014720)

 

I await your response with few regards

[Guest john]

To All Interested RAAus Members,

 

Last week a long time member & aircraft owner who is a respected person in the community has had their plane "grounded" due to the current debacle, even though the annual registration fees have been sent to RAAus.

 

When asked about this catastrophe, the respected community minded member replied that it was not going to stop them flying 1 way or the other.

 

This response was alarming, because it was pointed out to the member that if an unfortunate incident were to occurr in the meantime such as a third party fatality, & the matter ended up in Court, how would it be explained to the Judge that the plane should not have been flying due to it being grounded because of not being currently registered which is what RAAus would be telling the Court.

 

Here is a typical example of how some members are actually thinking & acting due to no fault of their own, & the RAAus representative would walk out of Court holding their head up high thinking they have been good corporate citizens, & the poor little effected member has been made a "criminal" because of RAAus negligence & incompetence.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The Pilot will lose his house and all his assets as he should, and in knowing he was doing wrong will do some prison time, as he should.

 

 

[bernieh]

Self righteous and self opinionated as usual Turbs..................B

 

 

[Robmus]

I would like to know if anybody at all is getting there rego's done? Mine certainly hasn't and they've had my cheque since early November

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Self righteous and self opinionated as usual Turbs..................B

They are the cold hard facts - actions in the control of the Pilot - RAA failures don't have anything to do with the chain of responsibility there.

 

Are you suggesting the facts should be hidden from people?

 

They should be given a wink and a nod?

 

 

[sain]

I had a flight scheduled for the weekend just gone at a flying school, but couldn't fly because RA-Aus hasn't processed the rego yet.

 

I wonder if the RA-Aus will compensate the flying schools for the loss of income.

 

 

[bernieh]

the cold hard facts are that once RAA has accepted and transmitted a payment they are obligated to honour their part of the contract...If the documentation is not in order why have they accepted the payment , and will the service provided be dated from the due date or the date on which the registration was actually renewed??

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I'll be doing the same during the xmas break. On private property with the gate locked. anyone got a problem with that?

 

 

[bernieh]

If I could I would..Power to you Ozzie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!B

 

 

[facthunter]

I believe you will be illegal and VERY vulnerable to heavy penalties. I totally sympathise with ALL of you , but don't do any thing that gives CASA the ability to get you. They will take your house.... Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

14 out of 69 aircraft grounded when applied to the fleet of 3600 Aircraft says that the groundings are of the order of 730. Still seems to high to me, but the responses are better, but still only 2% of the fleet in size...l.Id feel more confident if it was 10%.......

 

Andy

 

 

[Bandit12]

All you can do is acknowledge the limitations of the sample Andy. If you can't access more accurate information direct from the source (and as members you should be able to), then you just have to accept a biased sample.

 

But....that absolutely does not mean that the sample is overrepresentative. It could just as easily be underrepresentative and there could be more unregistered aircraft out there. There could be equally a number of people looking to make it worse by stating that their aircraft is unregistered (when they don't even own one!) or others that are bumping it up the other way for their own purposes. Just acknowledge the limitations and describe it as an indication of the extent of the problem.

 

 

[Guest Lofty1]

I spoke to my flying school yesterday and they were blissfully unaware that anything is wrong. If say many are in the same situation!!

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So

 

It would seem that no one has had a renewal completed yet that has seen this post. I recieved the following email from Michael Coates. I provide it below because its another perspective that seems to align with what we have been saying...... (The bolding is mine as is the header modification to hide his email and the people he sent the letter to)

 

It would seem that the exec would wish we were well on the way to nirvana, but the practical reality is that we apparently arent sure which direction it lies in.......Bunker down people!...if what Michael says is true it would seem at this point in time the problems may well extend for some time yet!

 

From: Michael Coates [mailto:mcoates@ his place...google mcp if you need to get his email]

 

Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2012 9:22 AM

 

To: Others including Andys@coffs

 

Subject: Aircraft sellers info

 

 

Why cant i believe this story.... But It's completely true

 

 

 

As some of you know I am currently in Europe at an aircraft manufacturing facility and I stayed up past midnight to ring the RAA. I tried calling from 7 AM in the morning (Canberra time) thinking that the importance of all of their problems at the moment they would get in early to start the day and get as many jobs and registrations completed as possible. I rang and rang and rang and the phone was not answered until 8:58 AM.

 

 

 

My questions to the office girls at the RAA were really simple

 

 

 

Question one, I am in Europe at the moment visiting an aircraft manufacturers. I have the opportunity to provide and source all of the information that could be required for an aircraft registration. Can you please send me through a checklist for LSA aircraft and a checklist for ultralight aircraft that I can use with our manufacturers to make sure we have everything required so there are no surprises for the new aircraft coming into the country and no surprises for our customers doing registration renewals. I then went on to say that I have sent three e-mails in the last three days requesting the exact same checklist which I am sure they have already developed seeing they are registering all of these new aircraft. (according to their own website) and I was wondering why they had not answered my e-mails ?

 

 

 

I was told as an answer to my question that "The RAA are not answering e-mails at this time because we are so busy" and it looks like they are not answering the phone either! They have no checklists available for either LSA aircraft or ultralight aircraft at this time because they have not had approval from Casa or from the person who is in there as a consultant to give anybody any advice ?

 

 

 

 

 

Question two, exactly how many new aircraft registrations have been completed as of 9 AM this morning. The exact answer was none, (for those who cannot believe it will translate into other languages... nada, zero, zilch). I questioned when are these aircraft waiting for a new registration going to start being registered, the answer is "we think sometime over the next few days. One of the girls which looks after registration is on holidays, Dean who is now doing the technical manager's job is not in the office today but we are sure we are going to get registrations under way before the start of next week"... you have got to be fu....... kidding !

 

 

 

Please feel free to distribute this e-mail to whoever wants to listen.... This is a situation which cannot be allowed to continue, whilst I am not currently affected I have six Pipistrel aircraft either on the boat to AU or leaving the factory before the end of next week, I have two savage cub aircraft leaving before Christmas and I have another aircraft coming from TL ultralight also leaving before Christmas. Add this up and it is approximately $1.5 million worth of aircraft, if these cannot be registered we will somehow need to refund the customers because the RAA have lost their delegations. I will be the first one at the head of the queue for compensation (before there is nothing left)

 

 

 

[Bandit12]

I spoke to my flying school yesterday and they were blissfully unaware that anything is wrong. If say many are in the same situation!!

Now that raises another question. To what extent has RA-Aus made reasonable efforts to ensure that all of those whose registrations have not yet been processed are aware that the are not yet able to fly? Joe Bloggs lives in outback Queensland, has no internet and has been a member for years. Every year he has posted in his renewal, and every year it has taken quite some time to come back due to slow postal services. So he keeps flying, blissfully unaware, thinking the paperwork will turn up eventually.

What has been done exactly to ensure that all members are aware that if your registration has been delayed, you must not fly?