Parachute drops at airfields

[pj8768]

I've flown into a few airfields where calls are made about chute drops and number of canopies (expected!) e.g Maitland, Goulburn.

 

If approaching circuit inbound, other than watching out for potential prop damage, any advice on chute-drop etiquette?

 

 

[Ultralights]

try to keep about 5 iles away from the drop zone untill all chutes are on the ground. or about 3 mins after the drop call.

 

 

[dodo]

Jill Bailey took me through this at Temora, when there was a drop in progress. A couple of useful things to know are:

 

- The drop plane will say at least once prior to drop (and I think twice), what it's intentions are ("x canopies from y feet in z minutes)

 

- The drop plane will call when it drops (same info);

 

- You can spot the canopies relatively easily, and they are SLOW sideways, and descending at about 500-1000' per minute (if I recall correctly)

 

- it is illegal to land if there is anything or anyone on the runway. So if someone lands inside the runway markers (NOT the bitumen,the markers!), you legally should not land until they have exited outside the runway markers. This can take a while (see the final point);

 

- once the drop plane has evicted it's cargo, it then behaves normally, and should be treated like any other aircraft (although its descent profile may be like a glider tug);

 

- skydivers leave their brains in the air. Once on the ground, they pick up their chutes, and wander vaguely to wherever they wish, oblivious to anything around them, including runways, aircraft, and vehicles. The brain returns from the air some time later, but in the first few minutes on the ground, these are not self-aware, intelligent, life forms.

 

So the best approach is to gain a situational awareness by listening on the radio, remember that at 500-1000'/minute, it will take minutes for them to descend once the canopy opens, and land before them, usually, or identify where the canopies are and land between and past them.

 

I would be cautious if the number of canopies exceeds your ability to identify and track them, or if some are already on the ground, as it becomes impossible to count or track them once they have landed.

 

Generally, stooging around until they have finished will take longer than you expect. A reasonable number of canopies is not a big problem in practice - individually, each is much easier to track than an aircraft, so six canopies requires less concentration than three other aircraft in the circuit.

 

I hope this helps, and some of the skydiving people may have an interesting (or conflicting?) perspective. Any inaccuracies are not Jill's, but my recollection,

 

dodo

 

PS edited for terminology

 

 

[motzartmerv]

That sounds about right Dodo, all but the 500-1000 ft / minute bit. Im sure its much faster than that.

 

 

[dodo]

One more point... if the drop target is known (eg the airfield), the they will be dropped so the predicted wind drift lands them on the target. So if you know the wind,you can calculate their time on target by the drop position and opening height. If you know the drop position and opening height, you can calculate the wind.

 

dodo

 

Note - Edited to remove a humorous comment that was not funny in the context of a recent fatal accident.

 

 

[dodo]

That sounds about right Dodo, all but the 500-1000 ft / minute bit. Im sure its much faster than that.

From memory, after chute opening it wasn't fast - but the skydiving people will undoubtedly put me right

 

dodo

 

 

[old man emu]

And if you were unkind, you could observe that in the event of a chute not opening, the result may be untidy for a skydiver and a paddock somewhere, but the airfield will not be untidied! dodo

dodo,

 

An unfortunate comment at the moment. You might not have been aware of it, but a skydiver died at the Wilton site on Saturday. He was knocked unconscious in a mid-air collision with another skydiver. His emergency chute opened, but he was still unconscious when he collided with a parked heavy duty dump truck at an adjacent real estate development. No doubt had he been conscious as he approached the ground he could have steered away from the truck.

 

I appreciate that you comment was made in good humour.

 

OME

 

 

[dodo]

I regret my humour on that subject.

 

I wasn't aware of that accident, and I am very sorry for the skydivers involved and their family and friends.

 

dodo

 

 

[old man emu]

I knew you'd be the sort of person who'd say that.

 

OME

 

 

[Guest Lofty1]

C'mon guys, be good.

 

There's no requirement to keep 5 miles. At some airports you'd never get in if you did that. Usually they will just keep to one side of the runway and you can land quite happily all day but you will get the odd one that strays off course but they are pretty easy to spot.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The CASA regulations relating to parachute operations are defined in Instrument 405/09 under CAR 209 dated 9 October 2009 and have now been incorporated into ERSA under ENR 5.5-4 (2) Parachute Operations. This specifies when radio calls are to be made, what they must say, drop zones, procedures at certified & non certified aerodromes, when RPT traffic is present etc.

 

The reality is you must be very alert as the calls can be very short & the jump A/C can be several thousand feet above you. There should be 2 calls if the jump A/C is operating in a CTAF area, one 4 minutes before & one 2 minutes before the jump on the CTAF frequency so you need to make sure you make regular calls to ensure the jump pilot knows where you are and where you are heading.

 

 

[68volksy]

From experience throw any and all rules and regulations out the window. If there's parachutists around then approach the airfield with extreme caution. The drop plane should make radio calls and the good operators do but you cannot rely on this. You also cannot place any faith in the parachutists landing on the airfield. Anywhere in a 3 mile radius is to be expected once the chutes open.

 

Generally we stay high and wide until we spot the canopies, then wait for the canopies to touch the ground. Once they've all touched you just have to wait for the ones getting dragged backwards along the runway by their chute to stop sliding and gather themselves up...

 

Basically it's like any different air-based vehicle - we all operate quite differently. All the instructors at the school have the same advice - basically to stay clear and not try to enforce any rules as that will just get people killed. Kind of like flying in general :) .

 

Oh and definitely park your aircraft well out of the way (especially when the aircraft parking area at the airport is less than 100 metres from the dropzone target...).

 

 

[Sapphire]

C'mon guys, be good.There's no requirement to keep 5 miles. At some airports you'd never get in if you did that. Usually they will just keep to one side of the runway and you can land quite happily all day but you will get the odd one that strays off course but they are pretty easy to spot.

What about the one that doesnt open

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

if you pick up on the '2 minutes to drop' or the 'chutes away' calls contact the jump aircraft on area freq. The pilot will inform you on how many and heights they will open. tandems open around 4,500 and can take 5 minutes or so to get down depending on weights. Fun jumpers open down to 2000ft. Wing suit jumpers are a little more unpredictable due to the fact they exist a lot further up wind then turn 90 deg left or right to the direction of jump run and fly for a while before turning back toward the drop zone. This can put them up to two miles from the jump run path. Wing suits can cover ground at horizontal speeds around 80/100mph and can extend free fall times to up to 3 minutes longer than a normal jumper. They are usually the ones that land off the DZ. Navigating wingsuits can be tricky. Jumpers are not permitted to fly over runways below 500' At larger airports they are not allowed to cross runways by foot. they are usually picked up by a vehicle. At normal drop zones they are continually briefed on the hazards of aircraft landing and taking off especially students. Yes jumpers can behave like a mob of sheep at times.

 

Incident at Picton on Saturday. Peter was taking part in a wingsuit jump involving 16 jumpers called 'flocking'. This involves close formation with the flock usually in a large wedge shape and being navigated by the point flyer. The flock was turning when two jumpers lost contact and collided at high horizontal speed, one deployed normally but suffered from several broken bones and Peter was knocked out possibly suffering neck/head injuries. His AAD fired at 750ft, as designed, and his reserve canopy deployed around 400ft. It was unfortunate that where he landed was a residential sub division under construction and he collided with equipment on landing. At this stage exact cause of death is uncertain. Both jumpers were wearing a Go Pro and the footage is being looked at now.

 

Wing suiting and flocking are still relatively new disciplines for the sport and unfortunatly there are still things for us to learn.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[PaulN]

Maybe someone could offer helpful advice on this subject?

 

On a recent flight tracking north to Gold Coast, flying under broken cloud cover at 1500ft, my planned track took me about 2nm west of Tyagarah. Well in advance I had tuned to 126.7 to listen for any Tyagarah activity. 10 miles out I made the required position and intention call to give any Tyagarah traffic a heads-up, waited about a minute (2 miles further on) for any response (none) then momentarily changed frequency to Brisbane Centre in preparation to arrange approach to YBCG. About another minute later the controller called "Traffic in the Tyagarah area, be aware of canopies dropping through cloud". At this my pax and I looked out and up and to our alarm 5 or 6 chutes were descending right into our path about one mile straight ahead. An immediate hard right turn to the coast got us out of harms way. That was too close for my comfort, could easily have ruined the day for both us and a jumper.

 

My questions are ...

 

Shouldn't the driver of the drop plane have responded to my call on 126.7?

 

Is it OK for jumpers to drop through cloud as they did that day?

 

I expect the drop plane pilot was in touch with Bris Centre, but how would I know to listen out for him without knowing he was there (I don't carry dual freq comms)?

 

I expect the drop plane would be tuned to dual frequencies (Bris CEN and Tyagarah), I'm still wondering why he didn't let me know his whereabouts and intended drop? Noisy cargo maybe?

 

Is there something I could have done better?

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

It can be easy to miss a drop call especially when either or both aircraft are swapping freqs. Jumpships may also broadcast on a 3rd freq that the DZ is using. We use 119.25 for chit chat between DZ and A/C

 

I have also noticed that some calls may not get through due to position of antenna and aircraft. Our handheld won't pick up the call when the Caravan is directly overhead, the aircraft's antenna is on the top of the aircraft and blankets directly below.

 

Jumping above cloud is OK if the DZ has a 'cloud' approval. Certain conditions pending.

 

If just passing by a DZ it is best to always skirt the area preferrably downwind of the DZ and broadcast your intentions and if you know he is in the air keep calling. Don't rely on the just waiting to recieve the jumpships broadcasts.

 

 

[Sloper]

Goodaye all

 

We have parachute operations at the feild l am training at, l give the drop zone a wide berth at all times.

 

That way if a call was missed l should be clear, and if l do hear a call no matter where l am in the circut l keep a eye out.

 

l feel paranoia is good for me and the jumper, although jumping out of a perfectley good aircraft does seem foriegn to me.

 

Another words treat the drop zone as active at all time's

 

regards Bruce