Alert Tecnam engine failure Boonah

[Viper]

I think that RA-Aus has some culture issues around this sort of thing Viper. From what I can understand and have read, the early days of ultralights was plagued with engine failures, and I believe that might be a member or two here who have had in excess of 20 or more engine failures during their time. Certainly if you read some of the US forums where they fly unlicensed, unregistered ultralights, things like engine failures are still quite commonplace.So the culture is to shrugg off these sorts of things. CASA doesn't want to really know about it, the ATSB hasn't the resources or interest in investigating, and RA-Aus probably neither the technical knowledge (although some specific people may have), funds (investigations can cost a lot of money) or perhaps even interest (already alluded to). The a/c owner is facing a loss of income until the insurance comes through and a suitable replacement can be found, probably an insurance excess and quite likely a rise in insurance premiums in the near future. And they probably aren't hugely keen to spend money trying to track down "why", when there is no return for that money spent. I feel your pain, but it seems that real investigations or outcomes from recreational aviation incidents are little more than a pipedream at the moment.

Hmmm as i thought

 

 

[Kiwi]

The main problem is that as soon as the crash happened the aircraft belongs to the insurance company, and with out their permission no one can touch the aircraft.

 

As no one was seriously hurt (I'm still amazed), the police and ATSB wont get involved. It will probably cost $2,000 plus for them to remove the aircraft, and they will be lucky to recover anything from the sale of the wreck.

 

Once the Insurance company have inspected the aircraft some of the club members plan to approach them to remove the aircraft at no cost to them (the Insurance Company) so we can inspect the aircraft and try to find out why it stopped.

 

Kiwi

 

 

[Viper]

The main problem is that as soon as the crash happened the aircraft belongs to the insurance company, and with out their permission no one can touch the aircraft.As no one was seriously hurt (I'm still amazed), the police and ATSB wont get involved. It will probably cost $2,000 plus for them to remove the aircraft, and they will be lucky to recover anything from the sale of the wreck.

 

Once the Insurance company have inspected the aircraft some of the club members plan to approach them to remove the aircraft at no cost to them (the Insurance Company) so we can inspect the aircraft and try to find out why it stopped.

 

Kiwi

Thanks for the reply Kiwi I really look forward to hearing from you re the outcome, as to the crash fortunately for us at the end you would have noticed the 2 meter drop off ,it was this that scrubbed off excess speed so we actually hit the trees with not a lot of force even though it does not look like it

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Now this is what I call "the fellowship" of aviators, an honest pilot stating what he did and what he could have done better knowing everything ( possible landing sites), but it sounds like he did EXACTLY what he thought was the best plan for the situation, he weighed up all the known options, made a plan and flew the plan, he AVIATED, NAVIGATED and COMMUNICATED, what is better than this ( only just ) is the positive support and comments from fellow aviators. We hear so often about our fellow flyers making mistakes, doing the wrong thing etc, but rarely do we hear actions ( life saving actions ) like these and supported by peers. Viper, you are a credit to yourself and the aviation community, give your past instructor a call and tell him he/she helped to train a great pilot.

 

And to the many positive commenters above, bloody well one to you, as a nation of knockers that quickly jump on the band wagon, you have all displayed great Kinship here, I hope we see more of it.

 

I would fly with you Viper, bloody well done. Sorry to hear about the aircraft, but as many have and will say again, they can be replaced. Also, thanks for the openness in advising others about your accident, maybe someone else will save themself with your cool headed example.

 

 

[johnm]

Good work Viper (the aircraft insurance Co might not be pleased but any life insurance Co will have a smile from ear to ear)

 

How did the inside floor of the cock pit hold up to the landing ..................... was there much / any internal deformation - was there any obvious failure of the frame in the cockpit area ?

 

 

[cooperplace]

Tecnam 7200 engine out over Wyralong dam { Tiger country } emergency landing passenger a pilot walk away Plane #$@&

while it would be nice to know why this happened, really the plane can go to hell, what matters is that you and your daughter are fine. How is she by the way? Will she fly with you again? And are you 100%? As a father of two daughters I know what you must have gone through, and you did a fantastic job with both of you walking away. Don't beat yourself up with how you could have done better: you did absolutely fine.

 

Peter

 

 

[Viper]

Thankyou all for your kind suportive words just what the doctor ordered . I think it will be a while before my daughter comes up again

 

the cock pit held up with only a small deformation jamming the left door We actually did not hit the tree very hard although it does not look like it most of the speed had been scrubbed off as we dropped off the embankment breaking the undercarriage hopefully see some of you at the next fly again thanks

 

 

[XP503]

Did the prop windmill? I've always wondered if a 912 would windmill.

 

 

[Ultralights]

912's dont windmill, well, at 85 kts anyway.

 

 

[dazza 38]

When I did training with the engine turned off with Greg.(before peeps get their knickers in a knot, Greg was a CFI at the time) .It wasnt windmilling , the prop was stationary & I had to hit the starter to get her going again.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Feathered prop? CSU?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Feathered prop? CSU?

Fixed pitch.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Fixed pitch.

I was just trying to get my head around "feathered the engine" as I was thinking fixed pitch - nothing half smart intended just don't follow ?

 

 

[gareth lacey]

Hi Frank

 

that was me ,when i said feathered i meant using the throttle

 

cheers gareth

 

 

[frank marriott]

Thanks Gareth - Just terminology , I thought I was missing something. I hadn't heard of CSUs on anything this small but always interested.

 

Frank

 

 

[XP503]

Gareth ''feathering'' means to angle the blades with the airflow to decrease drag on a variable pitch or CSU prop, it cannot be done with the throttle.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

Hi David

 

yeah ,just found that out ,still a newbie in aviation,still a lot to learn Craig was trying to keep the engine alive by use of throttle ,i just used my words ,didnt want to confuse ,

 

cheers Gareth

 

 

[XP503]

:-) no worries, just helping out.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Since we are on the subject I'd like to start a separate post looking at known 912 failures, see new post...hope you can contribute !.........................................Maj..

 

 

[turboplanner]

You mean there's more than ONE?

 

 

[davebutler]

Viper, A great outcome all things considered, you and your daughter are safe.

 

I am very interested in the cause as I am a great believer in the 912 engine, Tecnam aircraft and I have a good few hours on this particular aircraft.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I think the idea of self investigating is one of the most responsible events in the last couple of years; bugger CASA and RAA

 

 

[facthunter]

Just a comment. I doubt that a 912 will windmill without idle power, ( which is not windmilling) except at speeds most of us never get to. Air restart without starter? Forget it. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea, Rotax's wont windmill unless you keep the speed well above Vbg. You dont have long to sort the problem. In practice (above the airfield with your CFI onboard ) when you shut the fuel off, you have about 5 seconds to get it back on before the engine stops completely(after first symptom).

 

Any sort of catastrophic failure, valve, crank etc will just stop it dead and would be accompanied by some loud bangs and pops no doubt, where as a fuel starvation would manifest by rpm changes, surging, vibration as the rpm gets low, then a stop.

 

Note, the Rotax time from fuel shut off to the first symptom at cruise Rpm is about 20 seconds. First symptom is normally fuel pressure warning light, then rpm drop, then some surging.If at any stage during these symptoms (bout 5 seconds) you get the fuel pump and fuel coche back on it will restart without any further help.

 

The Jabiru engine is similar, however it tends to surge less. Once the RPM drops it generally stays dropped and doesn't come back up. The windmilling will continue longer than the rotax, but still almost impossible to airstart once the prop has stopped. Ive never managed to air start one. VNE is the limiting factor. Aswel as altitude normally.

 

 

[facthunter]

The reduction gear is working against you. The toothpick blades don't help either. In flight air restart is a vertical dive thing mostly, unless you have a lot of engines. The feathered engine has a steep blade angle and applies a lot of torque, once it starts to unfeather.. Most turbines (turboprop) still rotate slowly when feathered. Jet engines don't feather. Nev