Aids To Refuelling a High Wing

[Riley]

I reckon either fuel is getting heavier or I'm getting more rickety as time passes because refuelling my hi wings is becoming a bloody chore. Climbing on step ladders, milk crates, plastic lawn chairs etc with a 20 lt container at head height and then slopping some fuel into the tank and a good measure of it onto the wing is becoming about as attractive as seeing my ex wife at a charity function giving away my ex money. So.... can anyone give me a critique on the Goat Throat GT 100 Pressure Pump as sold by Aircraft Spruce/Skyshop? I'm not enough of a gambler to throw about $175 at a plastic question mark without some advice/encouragement from someone who's been down that road. Can anybody who has used them advise if they are reasonably effective for transferring fuel from a 20 litre jerry can on the ground to a wing fuel tank about 2 meters higher without a whole lot of pumping and poncing around? Speedy assessments would be appropriate please as I'm needing to buy myself a Xmas present. Any other procedures that are old man friendly would also be most acceptable. Cheers

 

 

[Guernsey]

A 'painter's ladder' with a tray at the top which is the height of the wing and large enought to sit a jerry on, then use a fuel 'jiggler' to syphon the fuel, the ladder is also useful to put a bucket of water on when washing the wings.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Gentreau]

I can highly recommend the Polarn fuel transfer pump for metal jerry cans.

 

Can transfer 20ltrs of fuel in about a minute. You may need to get the can part of the way up to make the flow good, but basically its an air pressurisation system.

 

Got mine from a company in the UK, I suspect there's someone similar in Oz.

 

http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/rally/jerry-cans-containers/jjc-polarn-pump-fuel-transfer-kit-for-jerry-can-easy-to-use

 

.

 

 

[Sapphire]

I've seen an ordinary piston pump used, available at Super Cheap

 

 

[cooperplace]

I reckon either fuel is getting heavier or I'm getting more rickety as time passes because refuelling my hi wings is becoming a bloody chore. Climbing on step ladders, milk crates, plastic lawn chairs etc with a 20 lt container at head height and then slopping some fuel into the tank and a good measure of it onto the wing is becoming about as attractive as seeing my ex wife at a charity function giving away my ex money. So.... can anyone give me a critique on the Goat Throat GT 100 Pressure Pump as sold by Aircraft Spruce/Skyshop? I'm not enough of a gambler to throw about $175 at a plastic question mark without some advice/encouragement from someone who's been down that road. Can anybody who has used them advise if they are reasonably effective for transferring fuel from a 20 litre jerry can on the ground to a wing fuel tank about 2 meters higher without a whole lot of pumping and poncing around? Speedy assessments would be appropriate please as I'm needing to buy myself a Xmas present. Any other procedures that are old man friendly would also be most acceptable. Cheers

this is on Ebay:

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pump-Fuel-Transfer-Kit-For-Jerry-Can-Marine-Outboard-Siphon-Syphon-/280947856927?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4169cc161f

 

obviously it would need a longer hose. I think it's v similar to one of the above

 

 

[facthunter]

I used a pump with filter that takes so many strokes to a litre. You can measure the fuel you have put in that way. I don't like the idea of spilling fuel on the wing. Work from a car boot, to carry it all.. Nev

 

 

[Gentreau]

this is on Ebay:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pump-Fuel-Transfer-Kit-For-Jerry-Can-Marine-Outboard-Siphon-Syphon-/280947856927?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4169cc161f

obviously it would need a longer hose. I think it's v similar to one of the above

Similar, but low quality, I tried one of those first and it ended up in the rubbish bin.

 

The original Polarn one is much better quality and only a little more expensive.

 

 

[eightyknots]

For everyone's information, there is an older thread on this Forum at: http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/refueling-high-wing-planes.4374/

 

 

[gregrobertson]

 

I made this up 6 years ago and am still using it. It will empty the jerry can in about a minute and does not take a lot of effort. I think the parts cost me all of $20.

 

Greg

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Riley, I'm thinking along your lines, and also feeling the rickedness creeping in. How many bloody liters of fuel have I carted and poured since 1984 anyway !!!??...............some type of air-pressure set up is the way to go. I'll be watching this post closely and also checking our Ian's offering at the 'Clear Prop shop................................Maj...

 

 

[hihosland]

[ATTACH=full]19951[/ATTACH]I made this up 6 years ago and am still using it. It will empty the jerry can in about a minute and does not take a lot of effort. I think the parts cost me all of $20.

Greg

For a while I used a LiLo foot pump to pressurise a Jerry can with air and force the fuel up into the aircraft.

I gave that idea away when thinking that should a spark occur from static or other event a pressurised fuel/air mixture becomes an instant bomb/flame thrower.

 

Without the injection of air the vapour in a Jerry can is probably too rich to explode.

 

I feel that the potential hazard with pressurised fuel/air mixtures just too high to continue using such systems.

 

So back to the step ladder and jerry can

 

Davidh

 

 

[cscotthendry]

For a while I used a LiLo foot pump to pressurise a Jerry can with air and force the fuel up into the aircraft.I gave that idea away when thinking that should a spark occur from static or other event a pressurised fuel/air mixture becomes an instant bomb/flame thrower.

Without the injection of air the vapour in a Jerry can is probably too rich to explode.

 

I feel that the potential hazard with pressurised fuel/air mixtures just too high to continue using such systems.

 

So back to the step ladder and jerry can

 

Davidh

Bloody good point David! I'm using a system like Greg's and you've given me cause to think again about that.

 

 

[Bryon]

I recall seeing (back in my younger days, a long time ago) a device used by my Grandad

 

It was a kero tin pump with a winding handle, similar to the ones used on a 44 gallon drum only smaller

 

Is there, or has anyone seen a modern equivelent to such a device?

 

 

[hihosland]

Bloody good point David! I'm using a system like Greg's and you've given me cause to think again about that.

My was essentially the same as Greg's but with a foot pump

Davidh

 

 

[Hongie]

For a while I used a LiLo foot pump to pressurise a Jerry can with air and force the fuel up into the aircraft.I gave that idea away when thinking that should a spark occur from static or other event a pressurised fuel/air mixture becomes an instant bomb/flame thrower.

Without the injection of air the vapour in a Jerry can is probably too rich to explode.

 

I feel that the potential hazard with pressurised fuel/air mixtures just too high to continue using such systems.

 

So back to the step ladder and jerry can

 

Davidh

would it be that much different to a half empty jerry can in the sun, or even a half empty fuel tank?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I would be more worried about falling off the ladder and getting doused in petrol than a spark from a plastic bicycle pump...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Hey Riley, I reckon fuel is getting heavier also....they must be putting more lead in it !!!!!.......................Maj...

 

 

[hihosland]

would it be that much different to a half empty jerry can in the sun, or even a half empty fuel tank?

Well Yes.

The half empty tank in the sun is full of liquid fuel and fuel vapour under pressure.

 

The other is full of a pressurised air/fuel mixture.

 

One explosive

 

the other combustible.

 

At least that is my interpretation,

 

someone better versed in combustion chemistry can corect me

 

cheers

 

Davidh

 

 

[facthunter]

Almost empty fuel tanks are the most explosive. A full jerry can you can light up the mouth and a yellow smoky flame just burns, even though there is 20 litres there. If it gets hot and starts to boil then things happen. If you use an angle grinder on an empty 44 gallon drum you go into the next world if it has had petrol in it Oil dripping on a red hot exhaust pipe will as it runs and sticks to it, ignite quite well. It's surprising how many smokers will walk past someone fuelling a plane. If they are 30 feet or so away downwind the thing may go up, especially in light wind conditions. There is a lot of energy in fuel.

 

To reply to the post above, flame travels through a gas and air mixture from the ignition point. Under ideal conditions it is pretty rapid. (Milliseconds) The range of combustible air/fuel ratios is limited. If it is too lean or rich it won't ignite... Nev

 

 

[Sapphire]

I know a guy who was welding at work an empty 44 gal drum that had fuel in it.. He and his leg were found in different places but they sewed it back on. Anyone for sewing lessons?

 

 

[gallbladder]

Weather conditions as usual, play a significant role in the combustion/explosive process. On a dry breezy day the vapors do not accumulate and basically there is not much to ignite. However, if it is humid with very little air movement in the environment the vapors will accumulate and just a tiny spark and ...hello! So you have variations in between. That is why air movement ie. ventilation is so vital indoors when combustible chemicals are used. Remember, safety always trumps convenience! That being said, please send me the plans to your set-up Skyranger (looks great to me)!

 

Doc

 

 

[gallbladder]

By the way, there is at least one documented case here in the States, of a garage mechanic that used an air powered saw on an empty 55 gallon drum that had been used to store gasoline. It actually exploded, even though it was empty, the blast killed him. In spite of being aware of these things I would still like a copy of the plans Skyranger.

 

Doc

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I would be more worried about falling off the ladder and getting doused in petrol than a spark from a plastic bicycle pump...

The plastic bicycle pump is where the problem comes from. The action of rubbing two non-conductive surfaces together in the right conditions (ie little humidity) can generate enormous amounts of static.

 

 

[boingk]

When working on any vessel used to store gasoline, try to remove ALL traces of vapor before working. I'm highly of the opinion that you should flush with water and then give an air flush for at least 5 minutes prior to working. All that entails is letting a blower-vac or compressed air hose blast into the thing for 5 minutes, pushing air into and then out of the vessel and hopefully taking any explosive vapors with it.

 

Personally, I like fuelling using a funnel and one of the squat looking jerry cans like this:

 

 

If need be I would also recommend the use of a small stepladder to raise yourself.

 

- boingk

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Only a wuss would use a squat fuel can like that, I bet you squat to pee also !...real pilots use those high 20 ltr jobbies that fit easily behind most seats, plus they know straight away when you walk up to the servo after landing in some paddock down the road, that they are indeed dealing with a real man-pilot !!!......especially if the containers are well worn, like mine are !......besides, no real UL pilot 1/2 worthy of the title, is going to carry around a bloody step-ladder !, even if it did fit in after the carton of xxxx, two large bottles of Jack, and the girlfriend/missus ( in that order)....hell that's another 10 Liters of fuel in weight at least, the only time you would be seen using a 'step-ladder', would be when some strange blonde in a very short mini skirt is doing the honors and fuelling for you !..crikey, what's the world coming to ???...................................................Maj...