New RA-Aus Accounting issue

[dodo]

From the website:

 

Information for Members 19-12-2012

December 19, 2012 | members

 

During a recent enquiry into staff conditions of service we discovered some inconsistencies with our accounting procedures. As a result of this the RSM Bird Cameron, the auditors who conduct the annual audit of accounts for RA-Aus, have been requested to assist us to look into this issue and make recommendations to rectify it. Once the auditors have completed the task we will inform members of the outcome.

 

Kind Regards

 

Steve Runciman

 

President

 

RA-Aus

Does anyone have any idea what this means? With some accounting background,it still doesn't mean much to me.

Have we a problem with leave or super liability? FBT? Or has someone a dispute about an expense account?

 

Any ideas? It isn't very informative. Any idea why it couldn't just a bit clear as to what the "inconsistencies" identified are?

 

Dodo

 

 

[Spriteah]

Dodo and I'm sure many others I can say that there are no substantial liabilities that the board are aware of but some non normal practices have been detected. We are conducting an audit to determine what and how these practices have occurred then we will report fully to the members. Obviously we don't want to speculate until we have facts.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Jim Tatlock Vic rep.

 

 

[Rocketing]

Well, the way I see it is everybody has been asking the board to be more informative and in the process of cleaning up shop after everything that happened the last few months they are getting there and I see this as a positive step in that direction.

 

I truly hope there won't be another open attack because they are doing what has been asked of them as well as required of them. (Putting on my kevlar vest now)

 

 

[Robert]

Well, the way I see it is everybody has been asking the board to be more informative and in the process of cleaning up shop after everything that happened the last few months they are getting there and I see this as a positive step in that direction.I truly hope there won't be another open attack because they are doing what has been asked of them as well as required of them. (Putting on my kevlar vest now)

Yes like you I think they have got the message and are trying to improve things.

 

After reading Paul Middos statement in regards to the Emergency General Meeting I am of the oppionion to leave it to the easter flyin if possible. This would give things a chance to be caughtup with and to settledown.

 

Got the mag a couple days ago new calandar is a bit p#$s weak i thought what do others think?

 

 

[Teckair]

Yes like you I think they have got the message and are trying to improve things.After reading Paul Middos statement in regards to the Emergency General Meeting I am of the oppionion to leave it to the easter flyin if possible. This would give things a chance to be caughtup with and to settledown.

Got the mag a couple days ago new calandar is a bit p#$s weak i thought what do others think?

Did you get a calender? where's mine? I must have over looked it, will have to check again.

 

 

[dodo]

Dodo and I'm sure many others I can say that there are no substantial liabilities that the board are aware of but some non normal practices have been detected. We are conducting an audit to determine what and how these practices have occurred then we will report fully to the members. Obviously we don't want to speculate until we have facts.I hope that helps.

 

Jim Tatlock Vic rep.

Jim,

 

thanks, - my comment was because reads a bit like a formal press release as required by the ASX under their disclosure rules, which a firm then designs to say very little and yet comply.

 

I will be interested when we do get an update on what the issue is, and thanks for your reply,

 

dodo

 

EDIT Sorry, to clarify, I am not criticising,just explaining my response to the website announcement

 

 

[Gentreau]

What seems strange in that announcement is that the same auditors who didn't detect these inconsistencies, are now being asked to audit them.

 

Is it unreasonable to expect financial auditors to detect procedural errors or inconsistencies ?

 

One wonders why it took an "enquiry into staff conditions of service" to detect them.......

 

 

[Robert]

Did you get a calender? where's mine? I must have over looked it, will have to check again.

Well I suppose not really a calender maybe its gunna be in the Feb13 issue

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Well, the way I see it is everybody has been asking the board to be more informative . . . they are getting there and I see this as a positive step in that direction.

Not sure how you can associate "more informative" and that statement on the RAA website. I know I'm a little slow but, based on that statement, how would you know if somebody fudged an extra beer on their expenses or held up the payroll!

 

Not knocking bringing in the auditors but I don't think you'd do that unless you suspected there was something seriously not right. Let's hope not. You can forgive errors but not fraud - if that's what it is. We've seen enough RAA funds peed up against the wall due to the current registrations stuff up without waving goodbye to more. Is there no end to the bad news coming from the Exec?

 

 

[rankamateur]

Did you get a calender? where's mine? I must have over looked it, will have to check again.

It's the bit that looks like a cover fallen off your magazine, packed at the back of the bundle with the meeting minutes.

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Well as long as the correspondence above is from the whole board and not just SR it should be fine. Whatever it is I hope it doesn't turn into a witch hunt resulting in more staff departing as we certainly can't afford that now can we?

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Well as long as the correspondence above is from the whole board and not just SR it should be fine. Whatever it is I hope it doesn't turn into a witch hunt resulting in more staff departing as we certainly can't afford that now can we?

[Guest Maj Millard]

I know Steve Runcimans' one big strong point is his personal accounting experience and abilities. He overseas the day to day financial suituation of Australias' largest Army base for chris sake...(Laverack Barracks in Townsville). I just don't feel you would get even close to holding that position if there was any doubt about your honesty or open-handiness with financial affairs !!... This is one reason I like the idea of the guy working for our organization.

 

The independent auditing of the RAAus is a normal peroidic event which one could expect of an organization handling the amounts of turnover that the RAAus does. This could even be a CASA requirement, I don't know ???.... ( I probabily need a kevlar jacket now too....but to hell with it , I can take a hit !)...................................Maj...

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

. . .After reading Paul Middos statement in regards to the Emergency General Meeting I am of the oppionion to leave it to the easter flyin if possible. This would give things a chance to be caughtup with and to settledown. . .

If it were truly an "Emergency" General Meeting wouldn't it have been on before Christmas? Instead of putting the General Meeting back, they could have brought the Board Meeting forward from February. There was more than enough going on for the Board to talk about that shouldn't wait for a couple of months. As you say, they just needed to put it off as long as possible and hope all the bad news went away.

 

Putting the General Meeting off to Easter would certainly allow time for a heap of all new problems to be created by the people responsible for the current mess. For example, I don't think Eugene & Middo's records with selecting management staff have exactly covered them in glory and yet they are currently launching into recruiting two absolutely key management roles. Tizzard's employment might have been a job for a good mate but perhaps he has not been the most successful Chief Executive RAA has had, considering the last 12 months or more under his command. How many Tech Managers have we had this year - 2 going for three? How long did Tizzard's predecessor last, was it two weeks or four?

 

Nah, lets be fair. Let's cancel the General Meeting and give them all a couple more years to get us back on track. Clearly, they are on top of their game and everything's going well.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Besides, this bit of info is titled"Information for members" 19-12-12, isn't it ?....Isn't this what we are after and been complaining about not getting ???........maybe there's a turning point here, and they have finally realized that we, the members, need to be kept informed ?........................................................Maj...

 

 

[drifterdriver]

I might be getting a bit bitter and twisted after watching things unfold up close but I reckon as far as communication goes this latest item is too little and too late. All the members still haven't been told of the real drama unfolding which is the groundings so I find it hard to heap praise for this latest tidbit.

 

 

[Rocketing]

Not sure how you can associate "more informative" and that statement on the RAA website. I know I'm a little slow but, based on that statement, how would you know if somebody fudged an extra beer on their expenses or held up the payroll!Not knocking bringing in the auditors but I don't think you'd do that unless you suspected there was something seriously not right. Let's hope not. You can forgive errors but not fraud - if that's what it is. We've seen enough RAA funds peed up against the wall due to the current registrations stuff up without waving goodbye to more. Is there no end to the bad news coming from the Exec?

Hi AR,

 

Just asking, what is your financial management experience?

 

To say something like "...You can forgive errors but not fraud - if that's what it is..." reads to me like "I think they committed fraud and are trying to cover it up"

 

Like Dodo said in the original post, it can be ANYTHING regarding procedural etc and they are trying to find out the impact and how to correct it.

 

Now that they have mentioned it, don't you think they will feel they will have to inform the people of the result when they have it? Obviously people will ask them about it at the next meeting if they don't

 

 

[dodo]

Hi AR,Just asking, what is your financial management experience?

 

To say something like "...You can forgive errors but not fraud - if that's what it is..." reads to me like "I think they committed fraud and are trying to cover it up"

 

Like Dodo said in the original post, it can be ANYTHING regarding procedural etc and they are trying to find out the impact and how to correct it.

 

Now that they have mentioned it, don't you think they will feel they will have to inform the people of the result when they have it? Obviously people will ask them about it at the next meeting if they don't

If they have their auditors in, it is serious; if it was just an accounting issue, you disclose it, run it past the auditors,and resolve it. Like AR, I suspect something illegal, or probably illegal has been found.

 

I take the announcement as

 

"umm, we have a serious problem; serious enough that we can't say more until it is clearly defined, but we want the members to know now, rather than be accused of hiding things later"

 

So we wait,

 

dodo

 

PS Major - I would take our presidents accounting expertise more seriously if he had got the treasurer to publish the accounts. I am surprised that he didn't take that omission more seriously.

 

 

[Kiwi]

Besides, this bit of info is titled"Information for members" 19-12-12, isn't it ?....Isn't this what we are after and been complaining about not getting ???........maybe there's a turning point here, and they have finally realized that we, the members, need to be kept informed ?........................................................Maj...

You're not about to buy a Jabiru are you?

 

Kiwi.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Love Jabs !.........................................................

 

 

[Captain]

Yes like you I think they have got the message and are trying to improve things.After reading Paul Middos statement in regards to the Emergency General Meeting I am of the oppionion to leave it to the easter flyin if possible. This would give things a chance to be caughtup with and to settledown.

Got the mag a couple days ago new calandar is a bit p#$s weak i thought what do others think?

Robert

 

I'm absolutely opposed to the EGM being pushed out to Natfly, based on the fact that this Secretary has glossed over a couple of points.

 

After such a number of members properly requested the meeting, with a purpose to find out and discuss what is going on about numerous critical issues for the RAA, and with the Secretary likely to receive strong questioning about a number of issues, with the Secretary's AGM Minutes still being strongly questioned by those that were there, and with answers still being sought by all and sundry on the Secretary's reinstatement of Steve Runciman after his resignations, I think it extremely unwise to change a planned meeting date based on any spin from this Secretary about the background to, and reasons for, the EGM.

 

Regards Geoff

 

PS - Our so-called CEO and the Executive sure have presided over a few whoopsies, haven't they?

 

 

[damkia]

Dodo and I'm sure many others I can say that there are no substantial liabilities that the board are aware of but some non normal practices have been detected. We are conducting an audit to determine what and how these practices have occurred then we will report fully to the members. Obviously we don't want to speculate until we have facts.I hope that helps.

 

Jim Tatlock Vic rep.

"...We are conducting an audit to determine what and how these practices have occurred....", and I would hope the "who" that is responsible for the "what" and the "how" is also brought to note in the audit, with the appropriate corrective actions applied....

 

 

[damkia]

For the clarification of members an "EGM" usually refers to an "Extraordinary General Meeting" in a business sense. The basis of that is that it is a meeting that is held out of the usual schedule of meetings for a particular purpose (more often, although not solely, for an "emergency")

 

 

[damkia]

Maybe time for some independent forensic auditing/accounting to be brought in. One of the majors (PwC or similar)

 

MAJOR UPDATE

 

http://www.theage.com.au/business/liquidator-loses-bid-to-keep-alleged-fraud-in-the-dark-20121219-2bn2e.html

 

These are the people that RAA are using! They appear to be the ones in pursuit of the offender, but he was employed by them at the time, and may (HIGHLY speculative, but not to be totally discounted) have had something to do with RAA????

 

Could we have a comment about the specific individual that was undertaking our audits?

 

 

[dodo]

"...We are conducting an audit to determine what and how these practices have occurred....", and I would hope the "who" that is responsible for the "what" and the "how" is also brought to note in the audit, with the appropriate corrective actions applied....

The "who" doesn't come into it, until you have determine that the "what" was really very naughty, and then the "how" becomes a polite way of saying "who".

 

However, if it is found that the "what" was naughty, but authorised, obscured or fudged so no one can be prosecuted, then it would have been bad (defamatory, or embarrassing) to allege fraud or other illegality, when it turns out you can't do much....

 

It is a peculiar and specialised a style of writing. However, if you can translate, it is saying "We have an issue we should tell you about, but can't tell much you about. So if you get cranky later when it turns out to be a debacle, we did inform you as much as we could".

 

I know the board hasn't informed us in the past, but this has a nasty ring to it, and I suspect the circumspect language is that of an accountant who thinks they may have a real problem on their hands, and is trying to responsibly disclose what he/she can now, without prejudicing an investigation. The auditors would usually be involved to provide an "arms-length", so it isn't a personal opinion.

 

Again, I think we just have to wait.

 

dodo