Board Member Costs Advice Sought

[cazza]

Jim, Also when you joined the Board, you would have been given the Code of Conduct. On Page 4, Item 9, Introduction, it states:

 

""RA-Aus as a body representing the interests of members and pilots in the public domain, values its reputation for reliability, honesty and integrity. Board members are expected to uphold these principles when conducting RA-Aus business. Board members are also expected to rigorously comply with all aspects of the law pertaining to personal and corporate behaviour...""

 

On Page 4, #10 Principles of Personal Conduct, I draw your attention to paragraph f.

 

""Board members must inform fellow board members of all material matters in their possession that relate to the conduct and management of RA-Aus, including meetings with politicians and public and industry officials. Board members must not make any deals or undertakings with third parties that materially affect RA-Aus without making full disclosure at Board level. Board members must not discriminate in dispensing information. All board members are entitled to access to the same and complete material.

 

Page 5, Item 11. Board Meetings paragraph a.

 

Board members are entitled to be heard with respect and without personal abuse.

 

cazza

 

 

[Powerin]

I continue to be surprised. Board members being withheld information? *Sigh*

 

As said above...all board members should be provided with all documentation, regardless of cost. And the bigger the document, the more important it is for Board members have it in a reasonable timeframe to be able to digest it all.

 

If, for some strange reason, you actually needed to send paper documents let's look at the costs to send 200 pages of documents to Jim:

 

I assume RAAus has a photocopier and if it's under a full service contract it will cost about 2 cents per B&W page.

 

So Printing costs= $4.00

 

100 A4 sheets of paper at most = $1

 

100 A4 sheets of paper weigh about 500 grams (I weighed them). 500 gram 3-5 day parcel post from most places to Geelong = $6.60

 

Is under $12 dollars too much to pay for a $multi-million organisation to keep a Board member fully informed?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Maybe whoever tried this on Jim might like to explain?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

but what if Mr Tatlock finds another discrepancy? that could be more unbudgeted for expenses for the RAA.

 

 

[Captain]

Jim, Also when you joined the Board, you would have been given the Code of Conduct. On Page 4, Item 9, Introduction, it states:""RA-Aus as a body representing the interests of members and pilots in the public domain, values its reputation for reliability, honesty and integrity. Board members are expected to uphold these principles when conducting RA-Aus business. Board members are also expected to rigorously comply with all aspects of the law pertaining to personal and corporate behaviour...""

On Page 4, #10 Principles of Personal Conduct, I draw your attention to paragraph f.

 

""Board members must inform fellow board members of all material matters in their possession that relate to the conduct and management of RA-Aus, including meetings with politicians and public and industry officials. Board members must not make any deals or undertakings with third parties that materially affect RA-Aus without making full disclosure at Board level. Board members must not discriminate in dispensing information. All board members are entitled to access to the same and complete material.

 

Page 5, Item 11. Board Meetings paragraph a.

 

Board members are entitled to be heard with respect and without personal abuse.

 

cazza

Then there is the unwritten "Code" that has applied within RAA for years, which overrides all that written stuff, and has been experienced by Board Members Cazza, John McKeown, Don Ramsey, Ian Baker, Nick Sigley, some others, ..... and now Jim Tatlock:

 

Any Board Member who does not toe the line, & agree to be a sycophant + basically cede their responsibilities to the Executive will be intimidated & bullied until they do or until they leave.

 

And if you ask any difficult questions, that goes double.

 

 

[dodo]

Jim,

 

if you believe some document should be provided to you, it should be provided.

 

Exceptions:

 

1 if size or cost are significant, a sensible alternative should be provided (eg if it is 2000 pages, provided electronically). In other words, some delay or alternate format should be acceptable in some cases - but it should be provided;

 

2 some cases of privacy or serious confidentiality should warrant a query - eg some staff matters should provoke a "are you sure you need that?" question.

 

However, in both cases, the documents should still be provided. If a board member cannot see some documents, then who can? And how can a board member represent members with access to only the information someone else thinks is appropriate?

 

dodo

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Jim, we support you.Being a ex police officer, im sure that you would have alot of experience & is able to pick the difference between when somebody is spinning BS or is telling the truth.

 

PS- I had a quick chat with Johnny Mac at Evans Head (NSW), he is my representative up here in SE Qld. He is a top bloke as well. We need you guys.

 

 

[webbm]

You need a variatety of people on the Board with different personalities, education, professions and backgrounds. A diverse board will mean different members analyse and discover things that others mightn't in different situations and topics. This is only effective if all Board Members respect and listen to different points of view.

 

So if a Board Member wants a document because of a hunch that another Board/staff member doesn't, then it should still be followed through. Maybe some of the issues currently being faced by RA-Aus could have been prevented if a document was sought after, analysed and escalated by a Board Member (very hyperthetical here -hopefully you get the drift).

 

 

[damkia]

ladies and Gents,As a new board member I have recently been asking to be provided with paperwork of issues. I cannot enter into the details of some of the issues as they do fall into the confidential side of things and others don't.

Now what I am asking here is what do the membership on this site want?...

Less of this?

 

Simply, everything about the issues should be known by all members, with no "behind closed doors" activities.

 

Members pay yearly dues to have their wishes in the organisation administrated. There is no commercial need for "commercial in confidence" decrees from the upper echelons of the RAA, particularly given the recent stuff ups by the board and executive.

 

 

[Camel]

I smell a Rat . Why hold back info. You need the facts.

 

 

[pudestcon]

I smell a Rat . Why hold back info. You need the facts.

And rats (dead ones) stink real bad too!!!

Pud

 

 

[Spriteah]

On Page 4, #10 Principles of Personal Conduct, I draw your attention to paragraph f

 

Kaz and others this is exactly what I put to the board. In fact I will copy the exerts to here and let you decide.

 

Jim

 

 

[Spriteah]

Before I do that I will post this: A reply from the president after I asked for information. The indescretions was informing the Vic members that we were debating if a motion could come from the floor at the Feb 9 meeting.

 

Guys,

 

Let it also be noted that, given Mr Tatlocks recent indescretion on posting board business information on a public website, I, as President, would not feel comfortable furnishing Mr Tatlock with confidential information concerning a legal matter involving RA-Aus.

 

Regards,

 

Steve Runciman

 

Makes it very hard to work for the betterment of the RAA if you cannot even get access to the documents. I will say that after thinking about it Steve Runciman said I can visit Canberra and view them. However from what I understand it would take weeks for me to have a forensic look and I cannot take that time. However if I have a copy I can spend an hour a night.

 

Jim

 

 

[Spriteah]

This was my request minus names as they are confidential and I do not want to compromise any active case. Amazingly as an ex cop I know that but apparently the board Exec which I might add I believe at this time is one person does not believe me.

 

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 15:08:34 +1100

 

Attention: Recreational Aviation Australia Executive

 

I formally request a copy of all documents in the possession of Recreational Aviation Australia in relation to the case involving "XXXXXXXXXXXXX" as documented on our private board. I understand as a board member/director of the RAA I have a duty to have a understanding of this case and be independent of other members of the board. This is a requirement as outlined in our code of conduct.

 

I note that other members of the board have also requested more information on this issue and it has not been provided by the executive. I believe this action by certain members breaches laws and cannot be allowed to continue.

 

If the information is not forthcoming in the next 7 days I will have no option but to raise the issue to other authorities and express my concerns of secrecy and restricted access to the running of our association. This is not at all what I want to see happen but without being treated as a board member leaves me little options.

 

I have attached a section of our Code of Conduct for your information as well as a copy of the board transcripts. I would note that Steve Runciman who has objected to me having this information has agreed to provide other sensitive information earlier today which is confusing to say the least. It appears Steve is 'choosing' what information as a board member I may or may not view.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian member representative.

 

Board Code of Conduct

 

10. Principles of Personal Conduct

 

f. Board members must inform fellow board members of all material matters in their

 

possession that relate to the conduct and management of RA-Aus, including meetings

 

with politicians and public and industry officials. Board members must not make any

 

deals or undertakings with third parties that materially affect RA-Aus without making

 

full disclosure at board level. Board members must not discriminate in dispensing

 

information. All board members are entitled to access to the same and complete

 

material.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

 

[Spriteah]

And I might add that I was informed that the information would not be forwarded to me and I responded that I have little option than to seek further advice and then depending on what I receive I will have to act.

 

Basically if you don't know as directors we can be held liable if we do not perform our duties. I am told I have some directors insurance but to this day have not seen a policy.

 

I hate to say it members but we are not in a good state at this time.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

 

[facthunter]

Nothing wrong with that ( what you have done), Jim, But what a bummer that it even has to get to this position. History repeating itself as far as I can make out. I hate saying this .., but there it is.!... Nev

 

 

[ports]

Please continue your indescretions, Jim. Your efforts, as noted by many here, are truly appreciated and are making great improvements in communication from the board. The only shame that comes from your actions is that I continue to grow more concerned and frankly distrustful of the execitive, but your actions are helping with these concerns by bringing transparancy. This feeling of distrust is not something I enjoy or desire, and am shocked given the role that RA-Aus undertakes as a regulator. The likes of yourself and JohnMcK are a credit to the organisation by communicating with us. Please, please, do continue on this path.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Before I do that I will post this: A reply from the president after I asked for information. The indescretions was informing the Vic members that we were debating if a motion could come from the floor at the Feb 9 meeting.Guys,

 

Let it also be noted that, given Mr Tatlocks recent indescretion on posting board business information on a public website, I, as President, would not feel comfortable furnishing Mr Tatlock with confidential information concerning a legal matter involving RA-Aus.

 

Regards,

 

Steve Runciman

 

Makes it very hard to work for the betterment of the RAA if you cannot even get access to the documents. I will say that after thinking about it Steve Runciman said I can visit Canberra and view them. However from what I understand it would take weeks for me to have a forensic look and I cannot take that time. However if I have a copy I can spend an hour a night.

 

Jim

Perhaps he would feel a damned sight less comfortable expaining it to a Magistrate and ASIC!

 

This man does not seem to understand either his legal obligations or his ethical obligations. Matters are rightly kept confidential to the Board as a whole when they involve privacy considerations or contractual terms and the like, but discriminating between Board members is never acceptable.

 

I feel a writ of mandamus coming on and in the meantime can hardly wait for the AGM when special resolutions can be considered.

 

kaz

 

kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

u will be waiting a while for the AGM kaz!!

The time will pass quickly enough, CFI because other things seem to be coming to a head, too.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Indeed its easy to be focused on the 9th with a belief that all that is unwell will be resolved in but a few weeks......Reality will probably dictate a different timeline but the journey of transformation has well and truely begun. Indeed the reality is the journey started a few years back at Temora when a tiny group said all is not well........At the time they werent listened to, but recent events and disclosures have I think raised the level of disquite to levels much more prevelent today than they were back then.

 

We are in this for the long term, take satisfaction from every concesion achieved, dont be satisfied until we have all that is needed but get some joy from each improvement made.

 

Jim's issues are the same as a number of board members that went before him, except that he has a more willing and believing audience than those earlier members. That in itself is grounds for satisfaction surely?

 

Andy

 

 

[metalman]

Jim, I was looking for the PM part of this forum and couldn't seem to find , but regardless I had posted some stuff here that ,in light of the current info , was unkind to you , I posted it publicly and would also like to apologise publicly, I am sorry and I hope you can do some good here

 

Met

 

 

[winsor68]

Thank goodness... I was beginning to think it was me who was the problem regarding my attempted correspondence with my elected board member Runciman.

 

The man acts like he is off with the fairies in my opinion... and go ahead and threaten me one of the people who elected you...with legal action Mr Runcimann... Again...

 

 

[dodo]

Thank goodness... I was beginning to think it was me who was the problem regarding my attempted correspondence with my elected board member Runciman.

 

The man acts like he is off with the fairies in my opinion... and go ahead and threaten me one of the people who elected you...with legal action Mr Runcimann... Again...

My correspondence with the Prez wasn't very satisfactory. I wouldn't call it communication - but maybe I don't communicate well. Could be me or him.

 

dodo

 

 

[dodo]

Before I do that I will post this: A reply from the president after I asked for information. The indescretions was informing the Vic members that we were debating if a motion could come from the floor at the Feb 9 meeting.Guys,

 

Let it also be noted that, given Mr Tatlocks recent indescretion on posting board business information on a public website, I, as President, would not feel comfortable furnishing Mr Tatlock with confidential information concerning a legal matter involving RA-Aus.

 

Regards,

 

Steve Runciman

 

Makes it very hard to work for the betterment of the RAA if you cannot even get access to the documents. I will say that after thinking about it Steve Runciman said I can visit Canberra and view them. However from what I understand it would take weeks for me to have a forensic look and I cannot take that time. However if I have a copy I can spend an hour a night.

 

Jim

My belief on this, and I don't claim any special experience, is that there is nothing wrong with informing members of issues under discussion. While under discussion,it probably isn't a good idea to publish details of minor points,who is/isn't in favour - the board should get to decision before saying what issues Fred disagreed with, and what points Joe hung out on...so let the discussion get to a point of consensus or a vote, then set out the position of each.

 

...but that the issue is discussed by the board is not secret or confidential - or anything other than the business of the membership. If it is of interest to the membership, it should be available.

 

I think the President needs to consider what representing a membership means. It isn't leading, following, doing - it is representing.

 

And that means informing the membership so that you can get the opinions to represent them.

 

Jim, you have my sympathy on the frustration, but more importantly, my strong support for representing and informing the membership.

 

I suggest you ask the President what his message meant. How does he reconcile his duties as a director with his message?

 

dodo

 

 

[webbm]

Less of this?Simply, everything about the issues should be known by all members, with no "behind closed doors" activities.

 

Members pay yearly dues to have their wishes in the organisation administrated. There is no commercial need for "commercial in confidence" decrees from the upper echelons of the RAA, particularly given the recent stuff ups by the board and executive.

There will always be a need for certain matters being discussed by the board to be kept confidential. A good example might be an incident that is still under investigation by another authority, such as the coroner, police or ATSB.

What is important (in my view) that declaring items as confidential isn't overused. Items should not be declared confidential just for the convenience sake.

 

Full minutes of any confidential discussions should also be documented.

 

Cheers.