BFRs

[cscotthendry]

Here's one for the instructors. I have a BFR due next year and I have multiple categories on my ticket (weightshift and 3 axis). Do I have to do a BFR for each of the categories?

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not currently instructing but you used to do the BFR in the plane you flew most. I guess this is helpfull to the pilot. There is some reference to recency regarding Low /high performance. I don't know how they will cover it. Weightshift is a bit more of a "real" factor. I would think you would have to do both to be current. I'm only looking at that from the liability factor. If you are not doing any weightshift I wouldn't bother as if you want to fly one and haven't for a while it would be prudent to do a circuit or two anyhow. There is a passenger carrying recency requirement applying too . Nev.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Hi Scott

 

If you have multiple aircraft group endorsements (as you do), each BFR has to be done in a different group

 

Hope that helps

 

John

 

 

[Guernsey]

Are single engine single seat in the same group as single engine dual seat.?

 

Alan.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Group A - Three Axis

 

Group B - Weight Shift

 

Group D - Powered Parachutes.

 

 

[LimaMike08]

I queried the same thing with the staff at RAAus (I can't remember the person's name now) but she told me on two separate occasions that I only needed to do one each time and the suggestion from her was to alternate them. I have both weight shift and 3 axis. I suggest giving RAAus a call. They don't bite and then you at least have the answer from the horses mouth.

 

 

[Herm]

I queried the same thing with the staff at RAAus (I can't remember the person's name now) but she told me on two separate occasions that I only needed to do one each time and the suggestion from her was to alternate them. I have both weight shift and 3 axis. I suggest giving RAAus a call. They don't bite and then you at least have the answer from the horses mouth.

Yep this is the case. I also called RAaus as I have 3axis and weight shift. Told the same thing as above. When I did my sign off in the Jab my BFR was updated for both endorsements.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

It shouldn't, but it does.;)

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I queried the same thing with the staff at RAAus (I can't remember the person's name now) but she told me on two separate occasions that I only needed to do one each time and the suggestion from her was to alternate them. I have both weight shift and 3 axis. I suggest giving RAAus a call. They don't bite and then you at least have the answer from the horses mouth.

Regardless of any "suggestion" by the office staff it is actually mandated in the Operations Manual !

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Herm]

Regardless of any "suggestion" by the office staff it is actually mandated in the Operations Manual !Cheers

 

John

So if the RaAus, the body we pay to regulate our sport is telling us one thing and other people that may have nothing to do with the RaAus are saying other things! What would you suggest we do John?

 

I am not sure if you have faced this situation yourself or not, but thier are a few pilots at my airfield that fall into this situation. We all do the same thing of doing a BFR for our different class each time it comes up. IE swapping them about.. In my case if I have not flow a trike for a while I would go for a quick buzz around with my local instructor anyway just to make sure I had not lost my already limited skills

 

I am always more likley to follow the instructions that are given by the RaAus as I feel this is what they are thier for and I have always found them helpfull in all my dealings to date.

 

Mardy

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Hi ScottIf you have multiple aircraft group endorsements (as you do), each BFR has to be done in a different group

 

Hope that helps

 

John

john:

Yes, thanks that is helpful. You know my history with the trike and given this situation, i will just let my weightshift endorsement lapse as I am extremely unlikely to ever be PIC in a trike again unless I should have to take over from an incapacitated pilot.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

So if the RaAus, the body we pay to regulate our sport is telling us one thing and other people that may have nothing to do with the RaAus are saying other things!

I'm not disagreeing with what LM08 was told by the office - it is the same as what I wrote in my original answer.

 

I simply observed that what the office said wasn't a "suggestion" (i.e voluntary or optional) - it is a mandatory requirement from the ops manual.

 

What are these different things you think you are being told ?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Thanx Crezzi. As usual the only correct place to find a rule is in the 'rules', can you point us to the ops manual ref please?

 

 

[Guernsey]

Couldn't find the Mandatory Rule in question.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Thanx Crezzi. As usual the only correct place to find a rule is in the 'rules', can you point us to the ops manual ref please?

Delighted to do so MM -

 

Section 5, para (g) of http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Section-2.07-Flight-Crew-Certificate-Pilot-Certificate.pdf

 

Cheers

 

J

 

 

[Herm]

Delighted to do so MM -Section 5, para (g) of http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Section-2.07-Flight-Crew-Certificate-Pilot-Certificate.pdf

Cheers

 

J

Thanks for the link John. Section 5 states what has already been confirmed in the phone calls to RaAus. That is you don't have to do a BFR on all groups at one BFR period, but rotate them at each BFR. so as mentioned in previouse postings the RaAus suggested to a couple of us when asking to do say your 3 axis at one BFR, and the next BFR you would do your weight shift etc.

 

when you think of it it's still pretty loose. If you held a nose wheel endorsement as well as a tail dragged etc you could do 6 or mor BFRS on nose wheel an never do one on tail dragged. That would suggest you may not have flown a tail trigger in 6 years and still be legal to fly one (I think anyway).

 

Good topic as I am sure many pilots would not have known this, so thanks for the post and link

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Delighted to do so MM -Section 5, para (g) of http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Section-2.07-Flight-Crew-Certificate-Pilot-Certificate.pdf

Cheers

 

J

Great stuff. Thanx J

 

 

[David Isaac]

There is NOT a separate BFR / AFR requirement for 3 axis in tail wheel and nose wheel.

 

The separate BFR / AFR requirements for 3 axis relate to 'High performance' or 'Low performance' regardless whether retractable, CSU, Tail wheel or Nose wheel.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

The separate BFR / AFR requirements for 3 axis relate to 'High performance' or 'Low performance' regardless whether retractable, CSU, Tail wheel or Nose wheel.

Not for RAAus David

 

The "Aircraft Groups" referred to in the Ops Manual BFR requirements are for the different control types only (3-axis / weightshift / PP).

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[facthunter]

The High and Low performance are a "relic" of the earlier times. The definition must look pretty silly to anyone with experience in the game. If the endorsement to a proper LOW performance plane is done WELL it will be retained for ever virtually, in your memory. Do you forget how to ride a pushbike. We now have all these endorsements More than GA. Our AIM is to NOT be more complex than GA.

 

The "GROUPS" I have no difficulty with, particularly weightshift. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Not for RAAus DavidThe "Aircraft Groups" referred to in the Ops Manual BFR requirements are for the different control types only (3-axis / weightshift / PP)......

Thanks John, as always we can rely on your accuracy.

Interesting as I had always been told there were two BFR / AFR requirements for 3 axis, one being 'High' performance and the other 'Low'. Nev points out the illogical nature of this ... so did the Ops manual change some time recently or have I always been fed BS on this matter relating to 'High' and 'Low' performance BFRs.

 

So while I am at it, does my PPL BFR qualify for my required RAAus BFR?

 

 

[greybeard]

So while I am at it, does my PPL BFR qualify for my required RAAus BFR?

Reply I received from RAA on 20/9/12

 

We accept BFR’s conducted in VH registered aircraft as suitable for an RA-Aus BFR provided they aircraft is under 1500kgs MTOW, single engine and the review was conducted under day VFR (no multi-engine or IFR renewals).

 

Likewise, if the 90 day currency requirement of three take-off and landings prior to carrying a passenger are conducted in an aircraft which can be registered RA-Aus but holds VH registration, this is also acceptable for RA-Aus currency.

 

 

[facthunter]

Other information in the manual states that the GA BFR only covers high performance. Not long ago the GA BFR did not count at all. You had to do both. Nev

 

 

[greybeard]

Other information in the manual states that the GA BFR only covers high performance. Not long ago the GA BFR did not count at all. You had to do both. Nev

Which is a little contraditory as you could do a BFR in a GA Skyfox Gazelle ( low performance as it has a cruise under 80kts ) and it only counts as a high performance BFR for RAA. Do the same BFR in a RAA registered Gazelle and it's considered low performance.

Similar issue with the endorsements.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Interesting as I had always been told there were two BFR / AFR requirements for 3 axis, one being 'High' performance and the other 'Low'. Nev points out the illogical nature of this ... so did the Ops manual change some time recently or have I always been fed BS on this matter relating to 'High' and 'Low' performance BFRs.

The current revision of the Ops manual is the one which introduced the concept of HP & LP aircraft with separate endorsements for each. Hence its unlikely that any early versions could have had stipulated any requirement's regarding doing BFR in each.

 

I would guess that there are quite a few RAAus pilots with LP / TW endorsements from the old days who haven't flown such an aircraft in years let alone done a BFR in one (increasingly hard with most schools aircraft fleets). Legally they can still fly such types solo (but not with a passenger)

 

Cheers

 

John