Silly Question??

[davebutler]

On a day VFR flight is it a requirement to carry an ERSA in the aircraft?

 

I have hunted high & low and can find nothing. The only reference I found that relates to documents to be carried is in the Visual Flight Rules Guide and that refers to maintenance releases, medicals and licenses.

 

From instructors and others I have always been led to believe you must carry a current ERSA and have always done so.

 

Thanks

 

 

[turboplanner]

The Visual Flight Guide contains extracts from the Civil Aviation Regulations so I'd check them out.

 

 

[djpacro]

Reg 233

 

(h) the latest editions of the aeronautical maps, charts and other aeronautical information and instructions, published in AIP or by a person approved in writing, that are applicable:(i) to the route to be flown; and

(ii) to any alternative route that may be flown on that flight;

 

are carried in the aircraft and are readily accessible to the flight crew.

 

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

See bottom of page 9 and top of page 10 of the VFG. The reg has slightly different words " ... that are applicable" etc.

 

 

[Ultralights]

The question these days is "can the ERSA be a digital copy?"

 

 

[kaz3g]

The question these days is "can the ERSA be a digital copy?"

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/233_1.pdf

 

ka

 

 

[djpacro]

It would be good if AOPA or some-one would distil from that what day VFR private operators may do.

 

 

[ausadvance]

And remember the only silly question is the one you didn't ask!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

"6.6 The EFB, with GPS functionality, may be used for situational awareness only. It is not an

 

approved navigation system and cannot be used as the primary means of navigation."

 

 

An aweful lot of time and effort has gone into writing this guide, but I am no wiser.

 

 

 

[davebutler]

Thanks Guys for the replies but like Old Koreelah & djpacro and I am sure many others I am still none the wiser regarding Day VFR and the use of an EFB i.e. iPad mini with Ozrunways or similar in place of an ERSA.

 

I understand that it should not be used for navigation, only for situational awareness and agree fully. I always have a current map and have my route with 10nM marker etc even for short trips.

 

Also between all the "legal speak" in the CASA docs I am still not sure if I HAVE TO carry an ERSA on a Day VFR flight?

 

 

[facthunter]

Till you have loaded your ultralight up to the stage it is overweight, you will NOT have all the books you require to legally fly your plane. Nev

 

 

[flyhi]

Reg 233

 

(h) the latest editions of the aeronautical maps, charts and other aeronautical information and instructions, published in AIP or by a person approved in writing, that are applicable:

 

(i) to the route to be flown; and

 

(ii) to any alternative route that may be flown on that flight;

 

are carried in the aircraft and are readily accessible to the flight crew.

 

Penalty: 50 penalty units

 

Copies of the relavent pages of the current ERSA should comply with (h) (i) & (ii) above

 

 

[flyhi]

Reg 233(h) the latest editions of the aeronautical maps, charts and other aeronautical information and instructions, published in AIP or by a person approved in writing, that are applicable:

 

(i) to the route to be flown; and

 

(ii) to any alternative route that may be flown on that flight;

 

are carried in the aircraft and are readily accessible to the flight crew.

 

Penalty: 50 penalty units

Copys of the relavent pages of the current ERSA would comply with (h) (i) & (ii) above

 

 

[djpacro]

Thanks Guys for the replies but like Old Koreelah & djpacro and I am sure many others I am still none the wiser regarding Day VFR and the use of an EFB i.e. iPad mini with Ozrunways or similar in place of an ERSA.

I got an affirmative verbal advice from a CASA Safety Advisor last year on that specific question and the following extract from that CAAP is quite clear:

5.2 The

Acts Interpretation Act 1901; and Electronic Transactions Act 1999 are the enabling legislation allowing the use of digital media to display the documentation required by the Civil Aviation Act 1988 and any of its subordinate regulations.

 

5.3 Documents that have already been approved in accordance with the relevant regulations do not need additional approval if they have been stored in the EFB in essentially the same form as the original document.

The trouble with that CAAP is that it is for commercial operations so private operators are left confused with having to wade through it all and work out what is applicable and what is not - it would have been very easy for CASA to have written a companion CAAP for us at the same time.

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

You dont need the VFG but you do need ERSA, but you can just take the sections that you need, I take photocopies of the airfields that I intend on visiting and those of my alternates, plus any airfields enroute that I may need to divert to due weather ( low cloud ) or for other reasons. Then there are the maps that provide full route coverage of the flight and any alternates. Everything you carry must be current. You also need your flight plan and fuel burn / requirements in printed format. You can have an electronic flight book that has all of these but you must still have the paper copies available. I got ramped checked at the Montoya fly-in and I had it all with the exception of my printed flight plan and fuel management stuff as it flew out the door ( had the doors off for this flight in the Skyfox ) but I had everything else, and CASA were happy with my explanation for the missing items. You must have the aircraft rego as required and your current pilot certificate.

 

This is my take on the regs.

 

 

[djpacro]

.... but you must still have the paper copies available.....This is my take on the regs.

and my take is as per the CAAP "the Australian Government introduced legislation that recognised that, from a legal perspective, electronic versions of documentation that are required by regulation are acceptable. The media used to store and display the document has become irrelevant". I don't need paper.

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

CASA field inspector seem to have a different view on this you may find !

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/233_1.pdf

 

this is the link to CASA CAAP 233.1, a lot to read through and find your own answers.

 

 

[storchy neil]

on landing ramp check wagga wagga asked for maint release ersa paper maps flight plan licence how mutch fuel on board neil

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Sounds about right.

 

 

[Ultralights]

In some of me dealings with CASA on the maintenance side, most of their inspectors on the ground are as clueless about the reg details as we are.

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Sometimes, but they can still hit you with fine points based on their limited knowledge and its up to you to sort it out, a pain in te butt. I prefer to cover all bases and limit my exposure to the SYSTEM.