Fatal Incident - Tasmania

[turboplanner]

Correct DD the RA statistics are so high that I'm surprised it hasn't attracted an insurance retaliation already.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Which trike accident near Temora are we talking about? Neither Ian's nor Davids accident have been "explained". A witness report is not an explanation IMHO

 

 

[David Isaac]

There has been no official report on the loss of our forum friend David Hunt in the crash in the brand new trike at Temora last year. I was told the autopsy revealed nothing out of the ordinary. All we have is Peter's eye witness report which indicates David was incapacitated for some reason. A very sad and tragic outcome for his friends and family.

 

It is sad and frustrating that we get NOTHING from RA Aus on these matters.

 

In the recent loss of my friend Chris Bowles in the Lismore crash late last year there are already two preliminary reports on the ATSB web site. The latest gives a lot of detail and draws no conclusions. The detail does help is some small way.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes David its incredibly frustrating that we just never find out the 'facts'. All we are left with is conjecture and the odd witness statement, unless of course its highly public like the infamous ferris wheel incident. I spoke to an investigator re davids accident some time ago, all he could tell me was that the evidence did not suport the theory that was being put forward by members.

 

A similar problem occurred regarding Ian and Ellaine's fatal after natfly last year. Due to the light conditions at the time and the fact a tall ground structure was involved, the story was propagated that they just got low in the dark on approach and hit something, which once again was not supported by the evidence.

 

The thing that saddens me almost as much as the events themselves is the fact that we never get to bottom of the accidents and therefor cant learn much, if anything, from the events. Both of these accidents (im told) could have extremely strong learning outcomes for us all if they were investigated and reported on fully.

 

My friends in the police and ATSB say that their hands are tied do to legislation and placarded aircraft which is something I for one would love to see changed.

 

 

[Cooda]

the RA statistics are so high that I'm surprised it hasn't attracted an insurance retaliation already.

Interesting view.

 

When I proposed to use a LSA in place of driving to the NT's regional centres as part of my work, the company's workers compensation and public liability insurers and my personal insurer all commented that I would be safer flying than driving. All three policies were endorsed for my flying up to 200 hrs/year without affecting the price of the policies and have had three renewals without problems.

 

Of course, that might just be a reflection on the relative safety of NT roads.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes David its incredibly frustrating that we just never find out the 'facts'. All we are left with is conjecture and the odd witness statement, unless of course its highly public like the infamous ferris wheel incident. I spoke to an investigator re davids accident some time ago, all he could tell me was that the evidence did not suport the theory that was being put forward by members.A similar problem occurred regarding Ian and Ellaine's fatal after natfly last year. Due to the light conditions at the time and the fact a tall ground structure was involved, the story was propagated that they just got low in the dark on approach and hit something, which once again was not supported by the evidence.

The thing that saddens me almost as much as the events themselves is the fact that we never get to bottom of the accidents and therefor cant learn much, if anything, from the events. Both of these accidents (im told) could have extremely strong learning outcomes for us all if they were investigated and reported on fully.

 

My friends in the police and ATSB say that their hands are tied do to legislation and placarded aircraft which is something I for one would love to see changed.

Unforgivable behaviour on the part of the Minister and Shadow Minister. Both are in this up to their ears, and are denying us valuable lessons.

 

 

[Gibbo]

Interesting view.When I proposed to use a LSA in place of driving to the NT's regional centres as part of my work, the company's workers compensation and public liability insurers and my personal insurer all commented that I would be safer flying than driving. All three policies were endorsed for my flying up to 200 hrs/year without affecting the price of the policies and have had three renewals without problems.

Of course, that might just be a reflection on the relative safety of NT roads.

Found the exact same thing with my flying. It actually was taken a risk reduction method by the insurer. $37 a year less on the premium to cover me. (about 1%).

 

 

[motzartmerv]

While its not just the cowboys that prang, there a few things you can do (statistically speaking) to lower your own odds.

 

1. Ensure you have sufficient fuel for the flight.

 

2. Monitor fuel during the flight (tank selection etc)

 

3. Don't do aerobatics in ANY raa acft

 

4. Don't fly after dark

 

5. Don't turn back on upwind after an EFATO.

 

If you stick to these suggestions (cough) then your odds will improve remarkably.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Both planes and cars actually don't kill people, people kill people including themselves.

 

Alf

 

 

[ave8rr]

Which trike accident near Temora are we talking about? Neither Ian's nor Davids accident have been "explained". A witness report is not an explanation IMHO

Exactly motz. Thats why I asked the question. Would also be nice to know wht happened off Sydney's Northern beaches with the Lightwing?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

See point 1 above..;)

 

 

[rankamateur]

> far safer up there than you are on the roadsI've heard that a few times and would love to believe it. But the stats say that RA flying is at least several orders of magnitude more dangerous than driving in Australia.

 

One in a thousand chance of getting killed per year? That's dangerous, very dangerous!

 

It would be nice to think it's only the cowboys who crash, but this is not true either, in my experience.

 

Unfortunately for some of us flying is irresistible, despite the risks. But let's acknowledge the facts - it's bloody dangerous!

 

DD

Is the fact that many GA pilots who can't maitain their medical certification, come to R A to do their flying, a contributing factor to our higher than desirable failure rate? The average age of R A pilots is nearly worse than the average age of Australian farmers, people of advancing age are predisposed to dying, what ever they happen to be doing when they roll their last dice.

 

 

[Downunder]

Probably wouldn't have put it like that myself but what are the demographics of RAA members...?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Can I assume that with a fatality, that the ASTB should be involved?

No, generally not in RA; the crashes are usually investigated by Police, sometimes with the assistance of RAA.

However on a few occasions ATSB does step in and investigate, but this seems to be few and far between.

 

What we really need is for ATSB to investigate every one, because they have the legal powers to report publicly.

 

 

[facthunter]

Who would pay for that? Everything has a cost.

 

On another matter, I must comment on the increasing questioning of older pilots skills and motivation for flying with RAAus, which seems to be being asserted more and more. IF you know of someone who is not flying well or up to standard do something about it whether they are young or old. Speculation is not a good thing to indulge in specially if you are in some way disadvantaging some group by making assertions and inferences as to their implied performance capability. Saying they are more likely to die might not stand scrutiny either. The suicide rate amongst around 60 year olds is probably less than 15 -25 year olds and you get old by looking after yourself and being carefull. A couple of characteristics that might fit well with Aviation activities. Nev

 

 

[pylon500]

What we really need is for ATSB to investigate every one

Who would pay for that?

Every RAAus fatality should be investigated by the ATSB.

I guess they spent all their money on the Ferris Wheel Incident, no fatalities there?