Learning in 19 reg?

[Gnarly Gnu]

Hey folks it's my understanding that a school cannot use a 19 amateur build for training but that a person can train in their own 19 reg aircraft provided they find a willing instructor - is this correct? If that is so must the person learning be the registered owner of the 19 reg aircraft or could it be registered to a relative or friend for example?

 

Had a quick look at the Ra-aus website + tech and ops manual and couldn't see it mentioned. OK so I'll contact the Tech manager but in the meantime I'm sure someone here has already looked into this or can point me to the relevant regulation.

 

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Update: when I referred to the owner I meant owner-builder.

 

 

[Guest Error404]

I believe that only the owner can legally train in a 19 registered aircraft.

 

 

[skyfox1]

l thought no person could be trained or train in a 19 registed aircraft only certified ones.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Hey folks it's my understanding that a school cannot use a 19 amateur build for training but that a person can train in their own 19 reg aircraft provided they find a willing instructor - is this correct? If that is so must the person learning be the registered owner of the 19 reg aircraft or could it be registered to a relative or friend for example?Had a quick look at the Ra-aus website + tech and ops manual and couldn't see it mentioned. OK so I'll contact the Tech manager but in the meantime I'm sure someone here has already looked into this or can point me to the relevant regulation.

I understand that any person on the "build" list can learn to fly in that aircraft.

 

 

[Piet Fil]

GG,

 

Covered under section 6 of CAO 95.55 if thats what the plane has been built under.

 

Para 6.2 states:

 

6.2 In spite of sub-subparagraph 6.1 (a) (ii), if a person has wholly built or assembled an aeroplane to which this Order applies, or a group of persons has

 

wholly built or assembled such an aeroplane, then that person, or each of those persons, may use the aeroplane for their personal flying training.

 

If you amatuer build under 95.10 or 95.28 you'ld have to read those in detail to find out whether you can be instructed in the aircraft.

 

As you can guess I am building under 95.55 which will explain my familiarity

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest Error404]

I potentially incorrectly assumed that the original poster was purchasing the aircraft, therefore if so, he is the only one that can train in it.

 

If he and a friend and his wife build an aircraft they are therefore all eligible.

 

I know of one example where this rule was stretched where the owners son was being instructed in a second-hand amateur built aircraft which by definition is not permitted.

 

 

[Gentreau]

What if someone bought a 5% share in an 19 reg ?

 

Presumably they then become a joint owner and can train in it ..... ?

 

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[Guest nunans]

i dont think it has anything to do with just being an owner. you have to be the builder or one of the builders of the aircraft. this rule is to cut out the situation where a school trains in a homebuilt aircraft and every student buys a five dollar share in the ownership to make it legal.

 

The intention of the rule is to allow a member to build an aircraft then learn to fly in that same aircraft which makes sense. in this case if the plane fell apart during a solo while training for instance then the owner builder who was flying it at the time would have no one else to blame.

 

basically i think the aircraft used for training has to be factory built or built by the student who is learning to fly in it.

 

 

[robinsm]

Nunan is correct, I did this with my Xairr. I built it so was allowed to be trained in it after the initial 25hrs had been flown off and all the paperwork was completed. Only the buillder can do this, not anyone who purchases the aircrtaft after assembly.

 

 

[Guest Error404]

A subsequent owner is permitted to learn to fly in an amateur built aircraft. This of course is in addition to the original builder(s).

 

Please check with RAA if you need a definitive answer on this that will put your mind at ease rather than relying on a forum for such important advice.

 

 

[robinsm]

Not the advice I was given by Raaa Aus when I was doing it. Only the constructor is able, NOT the sunsequent owner. (thats from the gods in Canberra)

 

 

[Guest Error404]

Perhaps I am wrong that is why it is a good idea to always check for your specific circumstances.

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Sounds like one of the biggest problems would be is getting the 25 hrs flown off for registration.

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

What do you do? give your plane up for someone else to nock up the hrs?

 

Sounds like a job for Tommo if he's still arround.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well I built mine but I also the learne d to fly in the same type of aircraft . Then I had my licence and could fly the plane I built but only out to the 25 nm for the next 25 hrs then after that was done then my instructor could come in my aircraft so I did all my cross country training in mine

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Thanks for the advice! I added a note to the original post to clarify that I meant owner - builder, not a subsequent 19 registered purchaser.

 

ave8rr - I wonder how is a "build list" (ie people that contributed to the amateur build) defined?

 

 

[ave8rr]

Thanks for the advice! I added a note to the original post to clarify that I meant owner - builder, not a subsequent 19 registered purchaser.ave8rr - I wonder how is a "build list" (ie people that contributed to the amateur build) defined?

Hi GG, I am about to put together a Rans S6ES as a family project. When we send in the paperwork we will name all those who contributed to the build. This will be my wife and two adult sons. Both my sons will then learn to fly in the aircraft once the aircraft has been fully "registered" i.e. the 25 hours have been flown off.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Thanks for the advice! I added a note to the original post to clarify that I meant owner - builder, not a subsequent 19 registered purchaser.ave8rr - I wonder how is a "build list" (ie people that contributed to the amateur build) defined?

my understanding is that each builder is the master of a subsection and only that builder can repair/modify that part. Those are EAA/FAA rules not sure that the RAA or CASA follow suit. not sure what happens if the builder leaves the group.

 

 

[Guest Error404]

What you have just described sounds more like SAAA than amateur built RAA regulations.

 

 

[poteroo]

Don't forget insurance. The flying school will require: (1) it is insured (2) it's insured for training per se (3) it's insured to cover solo students.

 

As well - it must have fully functioning dual controls. That means what it says. Have been asked to train in some aircraft without brakes accesable to the instructor, and even once in one with a LHS engine control quadrant only.

 

happy days,