Ballistic Parachute systems

[Phil Perry]

Hi All,

 

Been thread watching for a while, but so far I have not seen any discussion regarding BRS Parachutes, are they widely available for use in Australian registered aircraft types ?

 

Lots of discussions on the European forums, any thoughts ?

 

Just curious

 

Phil

 

 

[ausadvance]

they seem to be popping up more and more, i noticed the other day that the foxbats now have them as standard. look like a neat system!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Ouch Tim,

 

That's another thing the Aussies have beaten us with. . . . I have not heard of ANY Foxbat in the UK having A BRS fitted. . . .( yet ) looks like you're now leading the world mate !! . . . .

 

I guess that on a thread somewhere along the line, someone is going to plaintifully ask. . . . "In what sort of situation would I be recommended to deploy my BRS ?? and also perhaps. . . WHEN YOU MAYBE SHOULDN'T HAVE ??

 

I watched a really horrible youtube vid from the USA last year showing a couple of people in a single engined aircraft ( type wasn't identified, ) who'd had a cockpit fire in the air, ( height / altitude of deployment not mentioned ) and deployed the BRS.

 

What happened after this was truly awful to behold, they had their own private crematorium, which drifted gently down to earth in a level attitude, taking several minutes. . . . The video showed only the last three minutes of the descent . . . . .

 

At the point that it arrived on the ground, the machine and crew were almost completely consumed by the fire, but the parachute was undamaged, and had performed it's designed duty faultlessly. It lowered the airframe slowly back onto the ground.

 

I assume that these things cannot be jettisoned if operated accidentally, or prematurely ?? I have asked this direct question to several suppliers of these systems and been met with either incredulity, or no response at all.

 

I think it's at least worthy of consideration, but then I'm an awkward Bu*ger.

 

 

[Admin]

Chutes are not compulsory in Australia as in other countries therefore there isn't continual discussion on them. There is however, a lot of discussion on them over all the years this site has been running here in the Recreational Flying forums so you just need to do a search. I had one added when I purchased my 2nd new Flight Design CTsw and although I registered it 544kg, I was actually allowed a MTOW of 564kg (544 + the 20kg of the chute) as the aircraft was certified at 600kg (LSA).

 

Whilst I hoped I would never need the chute, it was a good investment in giving both myself, my wife and my family peace of mind when I was out flying...not to mention my phone also sms'ing the wife my lat and long every 15mins.

 

What was interesting is I purchased the brand new CTsw from the agent. I found an AD came out on the chute handle yet an AD wasn't announced by RAAus so I contacted the Tech Mgr at the time (Chris Keine) and advised him of it. Chris followed up with the agent and advised back that there wasn't any aircraft in Australia that was subject to the AD. I took a photo of the chute handle that displayed that it was in fact the handle which was the subject of the AD and sent it off to Chris at RAAus. Several days later I was then contacted by the agent, whom I purchased the brand new aircraft from, advising me they would be getting the handle fixed under warranty.

 

Here's the thing...had I not made a big deal of the handle AD and found myself in that once in a lifetime scenario where I had to pull the handle, and it didn't work, I wonder what would have been the repercussions?

 

 

[ausadvance]

i guess its a bit like airbags isnt it, 70 percent of the time they save lifes, but there is a big portion of incidents where they have been known to cause unessercary death, i know my cousin was involved in a serious accident that started as a minor bump that was quite controlable, however the airbag went off rendering unable to control the vehicle resulting in injury to his passenger and wiplash to his neck

 

 

[Guest burty]

NZ agent and info can be found on this site www.parakaiairfield.co.nz

 

 

[Admin]

NZ agent and info can be found on this site www.parakaiairfield.co.nz

Are you the agent burty?

 

 

[Guest burty]

No, i fly out of airfield agent located.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

i guess its a bit like airbags isnt it, 70 percent of the time they save lifes, but there is a big portion of incidents where they have been known to cause unessercary death, i know my cousin was involved in a serious accident that started as a minor bump that was quite controlable, however the airbag went off rendering unable to control the vehicle resulting in injury to his passenger and wiplash to his neck

some differences:

 

1. the ballistic chute is manually activated.

 

2. you won't deploy it in haste as the vertical descent is going to do some major damage to your airframe.

 

3. plenty of cirrus pilots have killed themselves avoiding deployment.

 

 

[ausadvance]

there you go, i must admit dont know alot about them, havnt go one in the drifter nor had one in any aircraft Ive flown! thought going by what phil had to say about the couple who burnt to death some might have been automatic.

 

 

[eightyknots]

i guess its a bit like airbags isnt it, 70 percent of the time they save lifes, but there is a big portion of incidents where they have been known to cause unessercary death, i know my cousin was involved in a serious accident that started as a minor bump that was quite controlable, however the airbag went off rendering unable to control the vehicle resulting in injury to his passenger and wiplash to his neck

It took very little force on the bumper bar to set off this airbag in this funny video clip:

 

 

 

[airangel]

Chutes are not compulsory in Australia as in other countries therefore there isn't continual discussion on them. There is however, a lot of discussion on them over all the years this site has been running here in the Recreational Flying forums so you just need to do a search. I had one added when I purchased my 2nd new Flight Design CTsw and although I registered it 544kg, I was actually allowed a MTOW of 564kg (544 + the 20kg of the chute) as the aircraft was certified at 600kg (LSA).Whilst I hoped I would never need the chute, it was a good investment in giving both myself, my wife and my family peace of mind when I was out flying...not to mention my phone also sms'ing the wife my lat and long every 15mins.

 

What was interesting is I purchased the brand new CTsw from the agent. I found an AD came out on the chute handle yet an AD wasn't announced by RAAus so I contacted the Tech Mgr at the time (Chris Keine) and advised him of it. Chris followed up with the agent and advised back that there wasn't any aircraft in Australia that was subject to the AD. I took a photo of the chute handle that displayed that it was in fact the handle which was the subject of the AD and sent it off to Chris at RAAus. Several days later I was then contacted by the agent, whom I purchased the brand new aircraft from, advising me they would be getting the handle fixed under warranty.

 

Here's the thing...had I not made a big deal of the handle AD and found myself in that once in a lifetime scenario where I had to pull the handle, and it didn't work, I wonder what would have been the repercussions?

You would have got a real surprise if you had have pulled the chute Ian, There was no rear strap fitted to it! [missed in manufacture].........DH, current owner

 

 

[fly_tornado]

a couple of points....if u feel u need to use it...."what have u done to get to this point!!!!!!..."and when it needs to be serviced....who is going to do it...how do u get it to them..???

 

....are u happy flying with sothething that may misbehave, destroy your a/c and possibly put u in a poor position......mmmmm

deployment rate is very very low, from memory 5000+ sold and less than 300 deployments, not all avoided a fatality.

 

Most BRS chutes are thrown away after expiry. They are popular in the EU/US for flying over mountains in winter.

 

 

[Gentreau]

One of the issues surrounding BRS chutes is the rocket used to deploy them. In a lot of basic aircraft, the fuel tanks have to be protected from the flame (I wonder if that video started like that). Recently a russian company called Mven have produced a chute which is ejected by compressed air, completely removing the risk of fire started by the rocket.

 

The important point about chutes is that they are not an altrnative to a forced landing after engine failure (if you have somewhere to land). They really should only be used in the case of structural failure or engine failure over tiger country. As mentioned, the vertical descent rate is about 500 fpm, enough to total your aircraft, but survivable in most cases.......

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Chutes are not compulsory in Australia as in other countries therefore there isn't continual discussion on them. There is however, a lot of discussion on them over all the years this site has been running here in the Recreational Flying forums so you just need to do a search. I had one added when I purchased my 2nd new Flight Design CTsw and although I registered it 544kg, I was actually allowed a MTOW of 564kg (544 + the 20kg of the chute) as the aircraft was certified at 600kg (LSA).Whilst I hoped I would never need the chute, it was a good investment in giving both myself, my wife and my family peace of mind when I was out flying...not to mention my phone also sms'ing the wife my lat and long every 15mins.

 

What was interesting is I purchased the brand new CTsw from the agent. I found an AD came out on the chute handle yet an AD wasn't announced by RAAus so I contacted the Tech Mgr at the time (Chris Keine) and advised him of it. Chris followed up with the agent and advised back that there wasn't any aircraft in Australia that was subject to the AD. I took a photo of the chute handle that displayed that it was in fact the handle which was the subject of the AD and sent it off to Chris at RAAus. Several days later I was then contacted by the agent, whom I purchased the brand new aircraft from, advising me they would be getting the handle fixed under warranty.

 

Here's the thing...had I not made a big deal of the handle AD and found myself in that once in a lifetime scenario where I had to pull the handle, and it didn't work, I wonder what would have been the repercussions?

Hi Ian,

 

That was most interesting, especially the bit about the dodgy actuator handle, . . . . bit like a ring - pull on a can of beer really, it's whole reason for existence is a ONE- OFF task. . . , and if it doesn't do that it's a bit of a waste of time, although, I appreciate that the failure of a BRS handle is a little more important than opening a tinnie. . . . , and probably cannot be fixed in good time with a screwdriver ! ! !

 

Nothing wrong in being prepared, especially if someone in another aircraft knocks one of your wings off. . . . . They certainly are not mandatory here either, although I beleive that they might be in Germany. . . but then again they have some pretty strict rules about all sorts of things there, but that would be off topic.

 

When they were first mooted in the UK some years ago, some worthy at UK CAA flight safety suggested that you might have to employ a military trained armourer to arm the system pre flight, then come back and disarm it when you got home, as it used an explosive charge to deploy, and one of the prime rules in this country is that you must not carry explosive devices in a private aircraft. . . . . ( ! ) I always carried a flare pistol and spare flares in the raft bag when ferrying over water,. . .. nobody ever raised an eyebrow about that at the time !!! ( Maybe that's one of the differences between commercial and private ops - I dunno - maybe DCA were sorry for us because there were no hand held vsbs available then. . . ! )

 

Anyway, thanks for the info, I'll keep reading the various OZ forums for more eddification.

 

Kind regards,

 

Phil

 

 

[Admin]

You would have got a real surprise if you had have pulled the chute Ian, There was no rear strap fitted to it! [missed in manufacture].........DH, current owner

Thanks Mate...what would have been the result?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Thanks Mate...what would have been the result?

Slightly assymentric freestyle descent ? ? ? ? ? ? ( ! )

 

 

[ausadvance]

It took very little force on the bumper bar to set off this airbag in this funny video clip:

 

thats just brilliant!

 

 

[Sapphire]

That would cost him a couple grand including labour.

 

 

[Flying Librarian]

I bet this bloke was glad the handle worked!!

 

 

 

[Sapphire]

Guess he got out before the plane burnt up and was lucky it didn't happen at 25 feet

 

 

[ausadvance]

and this fella to!

 

 

 

[Sapphire]

He had his adrenalin rush for the day, too. I think I'll get one.

 

 

[ausadvance]

I got an old bed sheet and a rope? rekon that might work? Im thinking maybe a bunger to let the bugger off.......and before anyone comments telling me a bunger wont deploy a parachute its ok Ive already thought it through......Im going to use a really big one!

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I've never been a fan of BRS. But after seeing these two videos I might rethink my position on them