Anyone remember the "Cygnet"

[gooneybird]

I'm being nostalgic at the moment and wonder if anyone can fill in the blanks for me.

 

I remember in about 1981 seeing on a current affair program on TV a story about some guys from Amberley(qld) I think developing an ultralight they called the Cygnet. It was a welded aluminium frame high wing pusher single seater. I bought the plans but was too isolated to do much with them and no trade qualifications. About 5 years ago I saw some parts i.e. frame were for sale or give away and thats all I know .I think the guys had something to do with the airbase. Wonder what ever happened to the Cygnet were many made ,flown still around or just totally forgotten

 

 

[damkia]

http://www.flyamphib.com/index.html

 

This?

 

 

[gooneybird]

Thanxs Damkia ,No it's not that aircraft the one I'm talking about was a taildragger.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Thanxs Damkia ,No it's not that aircraft the one I'm talking about was a taildragger.

the cygnet was a two seat side by side a/c with a shoulder wing. Usually had a VW type engine or small cont etc. there is one flying in the SI of NZ. They look like a Bolkow 208 junior but have the Tail wheel. 4130 tube fuse and tail feathers. Wood wing and all fabric covered.

http://www.pixstel.com/hapi-cygnet-g-byyc_urlb13807.php?db=3

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I saw the Cygnet for the first time at Mangalore 82 fly in. Unfortunatley the tail had suffered some trailer rash on the way down from Qld and did not fly. The company was called Pamco. It was assembled and did several engine run ups for the crowd. Created a lot of interest.

 

The construction was all alloy. welded fuse. Conventional skinned wing but can't remember what spar type. The airframe was very buzzy from the high reving two stroke and i think that it would have had a high fatigue rate. Not sure what the powerplant was.

 

Unfortunately a few months later Brian Lovell (from the large Lovell Springs company in Sydney) was killed when he stalled and spun it in on take off in Qld when he was picking his up from the factory. The Cygnet seemed to fade away after that. Not sure if there were plans available after that. The photo was supplied by Pamco for the MAFA newsletter "Contact".

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Slight correction. It was not Mangalore but earlier at Schofields probably 1980. That issue is Jan 1980.

 

 

[Guernsey]

the cygnet was a two seat side by side a/c with a shoulder wing. Usually had a VW type engine or small cont etc. there is one flying in the SI of NZ. They look like a Bolkow 208 junior but have the Tail wheel. 4130 tube fuse and tail feathers. Wood wing and all fabric covered.http://www.pixstel.com/hapi-cygnet-g-byyc_urlb13807.php?db=3

Cheers

I know and have flown the Cygnet you are refering to but that is not the one mentioned on this post.

 

Alan.

 

 

[gooneybird]

Wow Ozzie thats the one I was asking about. I find it fascinating! People can put so much into these projects and for what ever reason overtime they can disappear into oblivion .Perhaps if that was a project that a few years later when engines etc were better it might have been a real success.

 

 

[gooneybird]

Hi Guernsey thanks for the reply if it was the one that Ozzie posted about please tell me about it. What was it like to fly,where many of them made are there any stuffed in a shed somewhere .It may be worthy of a spot in that collection of early ultralights.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Slight correction. It was not Mangalore but earlier at Schofields probably 1980. That issue is Jan 1980.

That's a good piece of history Ozzie.

 

Apologies for the thread drift Gooney but talking of early 1980s Mangalores Ozzie might remember this which I took there in about 1984?

 

 

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

XXX - Edit (double post)

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I was going to say that the glider snuck in there quick but then I realised you'd taken time to readjust the elevator between pics. Neat little plane but.

 

 

[pylon500]

I remember seeing the Cygnet at Schofields, somewhere between 78 and 82.

 

I dug up a slide I took of it then (and have spent the last hour trying to get my scanner to work:angry:) and remember thinking that I was not too impressed.

 

Basically looked very short coupled and had very small all flying tail surfaces.

 

I was also not too keen on the 'structural' welded alloy tube framework.

 

I should point out that back in those days I was in the RAAF fixing high tech military equipment (Hercs') while flying high performance (then) fibreglass sailplanes.

 

When I used to go out to 'St Marys', I was usually amused by the general lack of knowledge of structures, control systems and piloting skills.

 

As I gradually accepted the idea of ultralights, they also improved to meet my expectations, however some did not..... The Cygnet would have been one of them.

 

As for the MACRO, I first saw this while on attachment to Townsville and was totally amazed at this beautiful piece of work.

 

Shades of Keith Jarvis(?) 'Australite', seen at one of the Mangalores'. (Can't find any pictures, no not the UltraBat.)

 

It would have been some of the inspiration to start designing my first airframe, the T-Star;

 

 

Seen here; <https://plus.google.com/photos/113292981019876413104/albums/5194984638789924465?banner=pwa>

 

I never heard any more of the Macro, but love to know more about it.

 

Arthur.

 

 

[gooneybird]

thanks for the insight Arthur. There is so much knowledge and experience avialable on these forums.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Shades of Keith Jarvis(?) 'Australite', seen at one of the Mangalores'. (Can't find any pictures, no not the UltraBat.)

It would have been some of the inspiration to start designing my first airframe, the T-Star;

 

I never heard any more of the Macro, but love to know more about it.

I remember the name Australite and that it was something good but can't picture it, getting older... And I think I can put a face to Keith Jarvis. The ultrabat looked a bit like a cross between a Sapphire and a Winton Sportsman, was a very neat George Markey creation IIRC.

 

I love the look of that T-Star, did you ever finish it? Like me, you must have been influenced by John Monnet's work, Moni, Monerai etc and maybe Hummel?

 

I ended up building 7 of the Macros, the later ones got a bit bigger, then the Dept started getting upset because although they fitted the 95:10 weight the wingloading was too high, so I went on to single seat Cub lookalikes and then an ultralight copy of the Christen Eagle.

 

Cheers, Alan

 

 

[pylon500]

I ended up building 7 of the Macros

WOW, so you were the designer and builder?!!

I may have even spoken with you at Townsville, probably around '78?

 

You had the 'Cub' lookalike there as well (got a photo somewhere) can remember a blue flashing light fitted to the roof?

 

So, do you have any sites on the net with more photo's of the Macro's?

 

Do you still have any plans??

 

The T-Star is hanging from the roof of my hangar, sort of made obsolete by the glass racer I started, have been thinking of adding tip extensions and going back to being a sort of motor glider.

 

Keith's Australite was like a little ASK-14, low wing, normal tail, fixed centre wheel, Robin 250 single up front, all made of wood.

 

Looked like a big radio model.

 

The Ultrabat was a joint venture, mainly by Scott Winton, and inspired and funded by George Markey.

 

Pretty much a 'Super Sapphire'

 

I will have to get another slide scanner and upload some my past history shots.....

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

WOW, so you were the designer and builder?!!I may have even spoken with you at Townsville, probably around '78?

You had the 'Cub' lookalike there as well (got a photo somewhere) can remember a blue flashing light fitted to the roof?

 

So, do you have any sites on the net with more photo's of the Macro's?

 

Do you still have any plans??

 

The T-Star is hanging from the roof of my hangar, sort of made obsolete by the glass racer I started, have been thinking of adding tip extensions and going back to being a sort of motor glider......

 

Keith's Australite was like a little ASK-14, low wing, normal tail, fixed centre wheel, Robin 250 single up front, all made of wood.

 

Looked like a big radio model........

 

I will have to get another slide scanner and upload some my past history shots.....

Hmm - might have been someone else at Townsville, I was living in Central/Southern Africa and Europe until moving to Melbourne in 1982 then was befriended by Veenstra and Labahn so got involved with the ultralight gliding/motorgliding scene as a result. Built a Scirocco (sp?) copy and then a SV copy, a bunch of the inevitable rag and tubes then got Monett influenced and did the Macros and then onto the CRMO framed lighties. The Cub-alike did end up sold in Townsville, but in about 1986 I think.

 

I went commercial in rotary-wing in 1990 and sold the not quite finished Eagle to Mike O'Sullivan and 'building' that gave him the interest to get started on the Supermarine venture.

 

Unfortunately I lost many of my photos in cyclones during 15 yrs spent in the Kimberley, NT and Arnhemland but am going through archives at the moment and rescuing a few, so I'll set up a net album in due course. Berger-Burr's Ultralight and Microlight Aircraft of the World 2nd edition has a couple of pages about my Macro and Cub things. A pic from that is reprinted in the virtualultralightmuseum, I see you feature in that great website quite frequently! 2nd picture down, this page - http://virtualultralightmuseum.com/mn.htm#macro

 

Also a mention of me in the pioneers section - http://virtualultralightmuseum.com/pioneers.htm#clarke

 

No flashing light on the Cub and no surviving plans of that era either, not that it matters much, we pretty much had the attitude that if you really wanted to built a quality aircraft you can't just design it on the back of a cigarette packet, you have to use a whole sheet of paper...

 

I'd love to see something come of that T Star, it would make a lovely motorglider as you said, and very much along the Moni lines.

 

Of course I remember Keith and the Australite now, he was a good friend of Sander Veenstra and I met him at Mangalore and Tocumwal, probably also Benalla, Euroa, Bendigo, Nagambie.... gee those were good days and seem so long ago now. You see Gooney, the thread is back on topic - nostalgia...

 

Yes, please do get more of your terrific photos up for all to see, you're one of the few surviving from the 'old days' who has built some wonderful and varied projects.

 

Cheers, Alan

 

 

[winsor68]

Loving this thread... And love that Macro.

 

Thanks for sharing guys.

 

I salute you!

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Loving this thread... And love that Macro.Thanks for sharing guys.

I salute you!

Thanks for the kind words W68, the Macro has proved to be far more popular since I posted it on the net than it ever was in the 1980s... it was a really simple plane to make, the prototype took about 3 months and then I knocked the rest of them out in about 2 months each. And that was hand shearing/snipping all the metal.

 

I've just posted a few pics of what I'm building now, AussieMozzie, if you're interested, post #121 - http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/post-picture-s-of-your-aircraft.54032/page-7#post-268156

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Fascinating discussion, fellas. Starting to fit together a few more pieces of the history puzzle. Looks like you blokes were doing it while I was still dreaming about it.

 

A nostalgic interest in old designs is great, but that doesn't mean we should actually resurrect them and fly them. Some old aircraft were killers and best left in the museum.

 

 

[djpacro]

I recall a new Cygnet at the first Avalon Airshow - I saw its wing chopped up by a rogue vintage aeroplane.

 

George let me fly the Ultrabat - a great aeroplane. My recollection of its origins was consistent with the website

 

http://dbdesignbureau.buckmasterfamily.id.au/aus_aircraft.htm

 

First flight: Designer: Graham Swanell, based on a concept by George Markey

Prototype built by: Scott Winton & George Markey

 

Description: Single seat single-engine mid-wing sport aerobatic aircraft

 

Comments: The Ultrabat was developed from the Winton Sapphire ultralight aircraft, and is intended to be a fully aerobatic aircraft.

[pylon500]

Thread drift?

 

Designer: Graham Swanell, based on a concept by George Markey

That may be closer to the truth than as I've heard it?

My recollection was that George had bought a Sapphire (after being involved with the Ray Tolhurst Stingray, derived from the Winton Grasshopper, Through which he met Scott) and was want to fly a bit more than straight and level.

 

After a few complaints, and the fact he was aerobatting His Victa, he decided to talk to Scott about making a real VH aerobatic based on the Sapphire.

 

No doubt Graham Swannell was involved with the engineering and paperwork, although I think Graham was still based in W.A. at the time, and it wasn't long after that he came out with the 'Maverick'.

 

Scott had a factory unit next to Bankstown Airport (where I worked), so now and then I would go around and see what was the latest.

 

After the Ultrabat, George had Scott start on the moulds for a scaled, composite MkXIV Spitfire!

 

The plugs were finished, and I think the moulds were basically done, to be built light and fitted with a two stroke as an ultralight.

 

Many years later I caught up with George, and he was talking about 'beefing' up the layups and fitting a small V6 for the VH category, around the time of the 'Thunder Mustang', predating the Titan Mustang and the Sullivan Spitfire.....

 

I'd love to see something come of that T Star, it would make a lovely motorglider as you said, and very much along the Moni lines.

Strangely enough, the T-Star started out as a highly modified Cri-Cri, by the time I had finished the changes, it was pretty much a Moni with a T tail.

It was then clipped to become a sport plane, but now I'm thinking of going back to a motor glider layout;

 

The dotted line is a CAD error!

 

Arthur.