Someone asked about "Ditching". . . .

[Phil Perry]

I read a post somewhere on this forum last week, where the poster asked "What's the best way to DITCH an aircraft. . . . "

 

Can't find the poster, or the thread. . . obviously not concentrating. I found the site indicated below which contains some interesting information regarding water landings, it's point is to try and contradict some myths on the subject, . . . most interesting I think, definitely worth a read. . . . .

 

"A ditching" can be defined as a controlled landing into water. ( Otherwise, it's just a crash. )

 

www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm

 

Cheers all. . . . .

 

Phil P.

 

 

[Sapphire]

It's a hard manoever to practice.

 

 

[damkia]

Ditching is generally considered to be a forced but controlled landing into a non aerodrome environment ("PanPan" emergency). An example cause would be visible leaking fuel from a wing tank (certainly not the only reason, though).

 

If fuel ignited it would be a Mayday emergency, putting down as soon as possible wherever possible.

 

You can ditch into a paddock, water or other area.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Ditching is generally considered to be a forced but controlled landing into a non aerodrome environment ("PanPan" emergency). An example cause would be visible leaking fuel from a wing tank (certainly not the only reason, though).If fuel ignited it would be a Mayday emergency, putting down as soon as possible wherever possible.

 

You can ditch into a paddock, water or other area.

Hi Damkia. . . . .

 

I think you'll find that "Ditching" into a paddock ( when you had no internion of landing in the paddock, but circumstances called for it . . .) is termed a "Forced Landing"

 

Not to be confused with " Let's DITCH the car and walk home from the pub. . . . ( ! )

 

The term "DITCHING" is and has always referred to an UN-PLANNED landing into WATER, but with the aircraft UNDER SOME SORT OF CONTROL.

 

If you need to make ANY kind of forced landing, this means that you are UNABLE to maintain normal flight, and that, is an EMERGENCY, and needs a Mayday radio call. An emergency is a situation where the aircraft, pilot and passengers are in grave and imminent danger. Yes I agree, "Ignited" fuel would certainly fall into that category ! ! ! ! !

 

A PAN call as has already pointed out is an "URGENCY" message, where you are not in IMMEDIATE danger but may have a problem of some sort, EG., your passenger has passed out, and you think he might have had a heart attack, and you want a shortcut routing ( even across controlled airspace ) to the nearest airfield where you can meet an ambulance, But in this situation, your AIRCRAFT is not in any immediate danger of falling outr of the sky.

 

The "Fuel visually leaking from the wing " example isn't a MAYDAY either, that would be a PAN call, to request a divert to the nearest suitable airfield before you became a Glider, OR to advise ATC that you were going to attempt a precautionary landing somewhere flattish.

 

You would upgrade to MAYDAY whan ALL of the fuel had leaked out. . .

 

Happy Landings. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[503]

Yes ,Unless you ended up in a ditch perhaps

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Ditching in water would be similiar to going into long grass (sugar cane ?) or similiar crops like wheat sorgum etc. Trick would be to maintain aircraft control right to contact, and slowing as much as possible prior to contact. With water entry especially, I would try to 'drag' the tail into the water first, to further slow down right before major contact. Do not release your belts prior to contact with water, or you'll end up plastered on the dash !....Do secure on your person any floation device you may have available, and especially your emerg beacon. Ditching near any boat or other craft, or just off shore is a good idea..........................................................Maj...

 

 

[Sapphire]

Of course if you have fixed u/c you are going to flip over nose first. Wonder if you kick in full rudder just before entering the water, you will sideslip in and your wing will have enough boyancy to keep a/c upright. If anyone want to try it, tell us how it went.

 

 

[Neil_S]

Of course if you have fixed u/c you are going to flip over nose first. .

I believe we had a thread about this a while ago where somebody came up with statistics that showed you did NOT flip over with fixed (esp tricycle) undercarriage despite the popular assumption that you would.....

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Of course if you have fixed u/c you are going to flip over nose first. Wonder if you kick in full rudder just before entering the water, you will sideslip in and your wing will have enough boyancy to keep a/c upright. If anyone want to try it, tell us how it went.

Not a bad thought, . . . . But I'm wondering if the pilot/passenger harnesses would work as well if the final water contact and resulting rapid decelleration with the airframe skewed one way or the other, might cause one or other front seat crew to sustain a sideways impact injury of some sort, as most harnesses are ( usually) intended to restrain bodies in the event of a rearward force being applied suddenly in a frontal impact situation. . . a five point type might, but most LSA aircraft I've seen are not fitted with this type of restraint, as also most GA aircraft are not either.

 

The hardest part of a water landing ( according to some survivor accounts ) seems to be accurately judging your vertical position above the water level, as I found doing seaplane ratings, this is made even more difficult if you are a long way offshore, with no scale reference, or the water is fairly smooth, unfortunately a steady "Powered" descent into the oggin is not an option if your engine has quit. . . . As Maj commented, getting the airspeed down as slow as possible whilst maintaining control. . . and approaching INTO any wind has to be a good start.

 

As has already been said, it's an expensive thing to practice. . . and in a high stress situation like that, it's a bit hard to know exactly ANY of us, however experienced, might actually perform . . . How many of us actually practice "DITCHING DRILLS" now and again ? Did YOUR flying training school have a checklist for this ?

 

Very interesting subject anyway.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I believe we had a thread about this a while ago where somebody came up with statistics that showed you did NOT flip over with fixed (esp tricycle) undercarriage despite the popular assumption that you would.....Cheers

 

Neil

Hi Neil,

 

I think that, although there are statistics on FIXED Undercarriage ditchings . . ., there are not really ENOUGH ( Fortunately) to sensibly form a solid conclusion nor basis for training manuals. . . . Logic should dictate that "To forward Flip" or not, . . . MUST be dependent upon several factors, such as, angle of entry into the water, speed of entry, size and weight ( mass ) of the particular aircraft, all leading to the question of. . .what is the total INERTIAL force acting upon the airframe during sudden decelleration, . . . surely this is going to create a very important and highly variable set of actual results.

 

You're right Neil, I've seen similar threads over the years on this very topic, , , , but NEW pilots and students tend to re-awaken the subject on a regular basis. So, not surprisingly, I guess we'll go on discussing it. ( I don't mind, there's a few tons of snow on the hangar roof at the moment, and I'd rather be gossipping on the forum than de-icing wings. ! )

 

And as a quick reply to the Ex-Underpaid Stuntman ( I love that Sapph. . . ! ) I agree that a fixed trike OR T/w U/C will definitely cause a nose to pitch under initially, but some of them seem to bob - up again, ( POSSIBLY due to air trapped in the mainplanes - if they are not ripped off. . . . ) giving Elvis [ and hopefully Mrs. Elvis... ] a little time ( occasionally ) to leave the building.

 

Phil