"ditching"/ Emergencies, etc..... Re-visit?

[flying dog]

Asking here is probably not the best place to ask, but as I am more interested in aviation and there is a "process", it is a good place to start.

 

This is also SLIGHTLY to do with that story recently on the news about that silly person who keeps ringing 000 on false reasons.

 

Note: SLIGHTLY.

 

The other post about ditching is interesting reading but I don't want to hijack that thread. So here is mine.

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/someone-asked-about-ditching.55380/

 

Ok there are terms of EMERGENCY, IMMINENT DANGER and LIFE THREATENING and all these wonderful things, but I am either really stupid or am just not getting some parts.

 

Although this is more AVIATION based, I am wanting to look at the bigger picture about handling emergencies in general. The subject has me interested.

 

I guess the fist thing to do is to define what is an emergency. Because without that, everything else is airy fairy and built on not much.

 

But I want to look on it from BOTH SIDES also.

 

To request and offer assistance.

 

If someone offers "SAR WATCH" - to call it - what are their "obligations"?

 

Again: I know there needs to be a process for them to follow when they receive the call.

 

And it would also depend on the level of cover the person offers and the other person needs if the two are compatible.

 

I'd better stop here, as I am now confused myself in exactly what I am asking.

 

I hope someone can offer suggestions/thoughts on what needs to be considered from both parties and how the "plans" are implemented.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Hi FD,

 

I think a current flying instructor would be the best person to answer your general query re SARWATCH, this is a facility we are not offered in the UK, but when I was flying in Australia, ( left there in '82 )

 

the reason it is not offered here in the UK, is that we don't really have what could be called "Remote" areas, where an aircraft might disappear un-noticed. . . although it is quite easy to file a flight plan from anywhere to anywhere, and request a Flight Infomation Service, until you arrive at destination., this has now been whittled down to a "Basic Sevice" which gives No conflicting traffic advice at all, for that you would request a Radar Advisory Service. but again, this is only available from Military sites, so is a bit limited in some areas of the country. An Advisory service means that the station worked will give you information about any possible conflicting traffic, whther they are working it on the radio or not, and suggest a course alteration.

 

An R.I.S. was similar, but all you got was INFORMATION, and what you did about it was your affair. Of course, this facility would be to say the least Difficult, in a continent as enormously huge as Australia, because Radar ( in them thar days ) was on what was called "K" band,. . . ( And now it's even higher up. . . ) which operated around One Gigahertz on the radio spectrum, this frequency ( Or wavelength) is at the bottom of what's called the "Microwave" SECTION of the RF spectrum, and signals at these frequencies rapidly deteriorate over quite short distances, even when compared to the VHF freqs still used for voice comms.

 

So basically, you would have huge areas of the country which were not covered by radar at a low enough level to be of any use to GA / LSA traffic. So the SArwatch principle was quite a clever idea, as long as it was used properly.

 

When flying across fairly remote areas in Australia, you would give the ground station your intended route, time of departure, and estimated time of arrival at the other end. This would mean that when your SARTIME expired, and you didn't call that you had arrived safely, a Yellow Alert phase would be declared, and if you hadn't called in within a Half hour of the agreed sartime, a RED alert would be declared and search and rescue operations would then be instigated. I always thought that this, compared with the UK was a very good system. DCA ( now CASA) used to get a bit dark on you, if you just forgot to call at destination and cancel the Sarwatch, as I'm sure happened from time to time, just like when a pilot got distracted, and forgot to close his flight plan across the English Channel from France to England, and they launched a Sea King Helicopter to go and look for him. . . . . ( I can't remember what that cost, but I'll bet it was a lot. )

 

When I did a small number of ferrying jobs, I always used the Sarwatch service, very cheap and useful, and as long as I didn't get lost ( !!!!!!!!!! ) this would have assured that someone out there at least knew approximately what trackline to follow to find me upside down in the scrub after my botched forced landing ! I don't know if things have changed radically in the last few decades, but when I was carrying innocent victims, on top of an accurate flight plan, ( Which I mostly tried to stick to like $**t to a blanket. . . ) I always went Full Reporting, ie, an "Operations Normal" radio call to the nearest available AFTN ground station each half hour.

 

Looooooong answer to a short question again mate,. . . . . but then I'm bored with the foot of snow on the airfield, and got nowt better to do.

 

Better ask a FI, or some of the other Aussie "Old Timers" on this forum as my info is a bit dated. On the subject of "Obligations" I guess that if you give them all the correct information about your intended flight, and STICK to the plan, their "Obligation" will be to come and rescue you; just as is YOUR obligation to stick to your part of the bargain.

 

Other than that, you need to contact the Government for a legal definition of what it is you need to know about "Obligations"

 

Phil

 

 

[flying dog]

Hey Phil.

 

Thanks for the info. It is good reading.

 

My REAL question was more to do with LIFE{} than flying. I asked here as I am more o fey with SOME of the terms so I can better express myself than in plane (no pun intended) lingo.

 

I am going through a rough time/stage and am re-writing a lot of the "rules" and gee it is confusing/difficult when you are really working at the absolute bottom levels of the rules.

 

I can't generalise with things as I am really REALLY re-writing from the ground up most of my rules.

 

Someone else mentioned this - and I'll put it here - as to the foundation of behaviour:

 

I have offered someone my assistance.

 

If they need help: Take a step back, and look at it from a third person's perspective.

 

Do what is needed and appropriate for the situation. Not more, not less.

 

That is a good starting point. Of course, what is "appropriate" is - I guess - ambiguous, but I now have a base line.

 

I guess a lot of what was taught to become a pilot is applicable:

 

Act professionally.

 

Take control.

 

Be responsible.

 

By taking control, that is to say take control of the situation, NOT the person.

 

I am also stuck with the other side of the coin, as in when to ask for help/"declare an emergency"/"Pan Pan" situation.

 

Because as bad as it can be "crying wolf" when flying, it is worse in LIFE{}.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Can't really add anything useful to that FD,

 

I've never regarded myself as a philosopher, nor aviation psychologist of any kind. . . . . . Pilot training should instill the required technical and practical skills into the candidate, and following successful examination of what has been learned, the rest is going to be down to EXPERIENCE, the one aspect which cannot be taught. Personally. . . I wouldn't try to dissect the subject into infinitely minutely detailed semantics, this would, in my view considerably reduce the gloroius FUN factor which most of us derive from flying. Otherwise the question must be, is it really the right pastime to pursue ?

 

Phil

 

 

[flying dog]

I agree Phil. 100%.

 

But, as I said, it is more to do with LIFE{} than flying.

 

And I can't stop myself doing just that: Dissecting thing into infinitly small details.

 

It kinda sucks, and can get depressing very fast.

 

Oh well. "That's life".

 

But thanks all the same.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Dog, perhaps if you were a little more clear about what it is you want to know, people could offer some advice.

 

There is no 'crying wolf' in aviation emergency calls, other than giving a mayday when your not in an aircraft (or boat i spose). If you the PIC feel the situation is dire enough to warrant it, then thats it. Deal with the should I or shouldn't I have later. First things first, survive the emergency, and if that means a call increases your chances, then thats the end of it.

 

You have a certificate so would have been tested on this at some stage.

 

Sarwatch is available to all pilots who lodge a flight plan, or you can even just lodge a sartime with no plan. it takes less than a minute and is not a good idea, its a GREAT idea.