9 Days left to act

[Guest Andys@coffs]

People

 

On Feb the 9th the Recreational Aviation Australia organisation meets to consider its future. This will be the first General Meeting that has been held as far as I know in recent times and is a function of a changed constitution and member disquite.

 

If you are a member of RAAus and havent read the going on in the Governing bodys forum then be aware that the ability to set up a proxy, or arrange to attend the meeting is running out.

 

If you were part of the team that suppported me and others to get the constitutional changes incorporated at the AGM in September last year, or you supported the call for a GM in Nov/Dec of last year when CASA moved in to restrict what RAAus could do with regard to renewewing Aircraft registrations and you arent attending the meeting yourself, or giving a proxy to someone you are aware of that is going, then you only have about 9 days left to have a say. After that you become an observer and have no control over what is happening.

 

If you dont know what a proxy is, or now to issue one then can I ask that you read the thread here http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/t-port-available-proxies-for-raaus-meeting.55280/ and determine if you will be raising proxy paperwork.

 

Its very important, We know as fact! that CASA is loosing patience and in my discussions with Lee Ungermann (who is still an RAAus member btw) we are running out of time to act. We must act before CASA does, to not do so will be a failure of epic proportions in our stewardship of RAAus.

 

Regards

 

Andy Saywell

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

And exactly how will CASA act if the RAAus do not keep them happy? More groundings? Fines for the RAAus?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I can not attend now as per the circumstances most know if they read here but last night my proxy was done to a member (Trevor Bange) who will be at the meeting also it has been emailed to the RAA as requested

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

And exactly how will CASA act if the RAAus do not keep them happy? More groundings? Fines for the RAAus?

Ozzie he didnt say other than the initial action was a proportionate one and if they felt they needed to they would raise the bar with another proportionate response.......I dont know how many proportionate response increases we could survive...

I have heard people say "I think of RAAUs as the same as the RTA is for car rego. In my opinion that is fundamentally wrong. RTA is a Government department and nothing anyone does is going to result in the RTA becomeing bankrupt, it has unlimited legal suppoprt and funds available. Furthermore I can not envisage anything happening at the RTA level that would result in car owners being unable to use their cars. As a function of that, like others I give a flying toss about the RTA and just grumble each year when we have to put the car in to be inspected! RAAus is so not like that, we are an incorporated association that when compared to a government source of income like the RTA is very fragile, and the Gov could care less whether RAAus survives or not.

 

I care in that if it fails I expect it would be quite some time before a replacement was brought on line and we will be right up that proverbial creek while we wait. CASA has already said that the concept of a phoenix from the ashes (RAAus Mk 2) is unlikely because in failing it proved the model is not the right one. No doubt those in CASA that want no RAAO's would then use the failure of the biggest of them all, as the means to fight like hell for the abolishment of the whole RAAO concept and a gathering of the clan (no doubt with some terminal consequences for some on the way) back to them.

 

People suggest that we have a large political voice to counter any such moves, but in my opinion you have to be one of the ones that cares to be bothered raising your voice in the first place and while it may well be true that almost all will want to be heard when and if those major failures occurs it may well by then already be too late....

 

Still, if people go to the meeting, or send proxys then there is not too much more that we can do at this point in time.

 

Andy

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Yes it is possible that CASA are running out of time, a good many taxpayers have lost patience with them. Hopefully the next government disbands the whole bureaucratic pantomime.

 

 

[kaz3g]

I am going to CanberRA for the meeting and am happy to act as proxy for any interested members who want to know what has happened, how it happened and what is being done to prevent it happening ever again.

 

kaz

 

Karen Gurney

 

Managing Lawyer

 

Goulburn Valley Community Legal Centre

 

PO Box 178

 

SHEPPARTON. VIC. 3630

 

ph 03 5821 9849

 

e. kaz (the usual @ sign) lcclc.org.au

 

 

[airangel]

Iamnot sure what all this is about.[ignorance on my part] ,but after you have dethroned RAA people. What is the plan then?

 

 

[Teckair]

Iamnot sure what all this is about.[ignorance on my part] ,but after you have dethroned RAA people. What is the plan then?

Who said that was going to happen?

 

 

[facthunter]

With all due respect, how could you adequately respond to airangel again? You must do a bit fo research airangel It's all there ,but I agree not simple, but let me assure all of you who are not doing anything much about it. TIME is running OUT. BAD things have been done to a lot of people whao have sought answers to questions over a long time now.

 

Jim Tatlock has been treated badly is only the most recent manifestation of their bullying and if he just gives up the whole thing just gets perpetuated. Members leave. ( I WILL) . I have had enough of this going on and on.

 

I thought Steve Runciman was the man for the Job . I was wrong. He isn't. The CEO was a disaster. cazza, Don Ramsey, Bill Kane have all been affected, adversely I did one AGM as Ian's Proxy and know how the board functions. I actaually thought that it could have come good at that stage but things did not go right. Even got much worse.

 

Lack of action at this stage just allows things to go on much as they have and no good candidates will put their hands up in the future. A request to put in a proxy is too much is it? It's a pretty small ask.. If you can't be bothered you MAY easily get what you deserve. Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

...Don Ramsey, Bill Kane have all been affected, adversely....

Did you mean to say they (Ramsey & Cain) affected Ra-Aus and the folk that voted for them adversely?

 

 

[facthunter]

No... All the abovementioned people have been adversely affected by the situation they were confronted with in the RAAus management scene when they were on the board. I could add Ian and there may be others. Nev

 

 

[Guest ratchet]

Ozzie he didnt say other than the initial action was a proportionate one and if they felt they needed to they would raise the bar with another proportionate response.......I dont know how many proportionate response increases we could survive...I have heard people say "I think of RAAUs as the same as the RTA is for car rego. In my opinion that is fundamentally wrong. RTA is a Government department and nothing anyone does is going to result in the RTA becomeing bankrupt, it has unlimited legal suppoprt and funds available. Furthermore I can not envisage anything happening at the RTA level that would result in car owners being unable to use their cars. As a function of that, like others I give a flying toss about the RTA and just grumble each year when we have to put the car in to be inspected! RAAus is so not like that, we are an incorporated association that when compared to a government source of income like the RTA is very fragile, and the Gov could care less whether RAAus survives or not.

 

I care in that if it fails I expect it would be quite some time before a replacement was brought on line and we will be right up that proverbial creek while we wait. CASA has already said that the concept of a phoenix from the ashes (RAAus Mk 2) is unlikely because in failing it proved the model is not the right one. No doubt those in CASA that want no RAAO's would then use the failure of the biggest of them all, as the means to fight like hell for the abolishment of the whole RAAO concept and a gathering of the clan (no doubt with some terminal consequences for some on the way) back to them.

 

People suggest that we have a large political voice to counter any such moves, but in my opinion you have to be one of the ones that cares to be bothered raising your voice in the first place and while it may well be true that almost all will want to be heard when and if those major failures occurs it may well by then already be too late....

 

Still, if people go to the meeting, or send proxys then there is not too much more that we can do at this point in time.

 

Andy

Let's inject some logic into this.

 

Why would CASA not want RAAOs to succeed? Would CASA ever get additional funding to undertake the

 

administration of RAA? Not when that same money buys hospital beds and other pork barreling for elections.

 

Maybe CASA is hopeful of some empire building, but truly it's like asking government departments to regulate

 

scuba divers, their gear and operations. No chance.

 

Do the public actually care that RAA failed audits? Nope. Do pollies care that the public don't care? Nope.

 

Hope many people possibly died as a result of RAA failures? I dunno 4, 8 max? How many people died from

 

quad bike rollovers? I dunno but probably more.

 

How many people ACTUALLY died from RAA's inadequacies. Totally unknowable.

 

Yes we hit a Ferris wheel. Drunk people smash boats together in Sydney harbour. Reality TV watching

 

is unaffected. Some dilbury in a boat occupied a C-30 for several days and diverted a cruise ship with

 

1000 people losing 10 days from their holidays. No worries. Iron chef is on.

 

It is a function of human behaviour that we grossly over estimate our importance in most things. The

 

fare paying voter only wants cheap tickets and safe flying. Do they feel threatened by us? You can

 

guarantee if they did then politicians would have the smell of blood already and CASA get out of the

 

way for the first hit on RAA by a vote seeking pollie. That isn;t the case and there's a lot of alarmism here.

 

It's bad that our organisation sucks. It needs to be fixed and will be in the usual way. So long as

 

we don't affect anyone else our organisational transgressions will be slapped, a new board elected,

 

new promises of reform made, some new paperwork, a litany of "moving forward" speeches and life

 

will go on. Always has.

 

10,000 RAA people want to fly. They live in marginal electorates. They aren't guilty

 

of anything other than believing their leaders. These errors can be fixed. CASA will never be paid to

 

do what RAA does for almost nothing. It's not the 50s and no-one will ever again tolerate having

 

to pay a bureaucrat to inspect their wiring, submit forms 2000-3000 in triplicate with fees on top

 

and sorry we lost them can you do it all again? All when it';s just a another safe sport that harms

 

no-one other than the people doing it. The cat is out of the bag, the safety record is fine and there is

 

no justification for anything other than administrative criticism.

 

I spent my career evaluating government departments and projects. This isn't even in the same galaxy

 

of stuff ups I've witnessed and buried. Lazarus was never dead, just in temporarily delayed respiration.

 

I have seen lies printed in Hansard.

 

I agree the organisation needs fixing but the chances of real freedoms being infringed when there is

 

no objective evidence of additional physical harm to ourselves or any at all to the nonflying public

 

is just a bit paranoid i think.

 

Should be a ripper of a meeting though...

 

 

[Spriteah]

Ratchet and others, I agree with a lot you say. Especially 'would casa want us to fail', I would very much doubt that. They will most likely do all they can to assist the organisation. However, if they come to the conclusion under our current leadership and administration we cannot comply with 'their' regs I would propose they have little choice but to remove 'temporarly' our flying rights. If they failed to act I believe they would be placing themselves in a position where CASA could be critisized. And I can assure you that the small group overseeing the RAA will not allow that to occur for long.

 

I do truely hope that change can occur allowing the organisation to prosper into the future. I have high hopes that the members will out of concern for the RAA drive change and I hope as a serving board member I have the opportunity to assist with the future development of our association.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

 

[Riley]

Ratchet and others, I agree with a lot you say. Especially 'would casa want us to fail', I would very much doubt that. They will most likely do all they can to assist the organisation. However, if they come to the conclusion under our current leadership and administration we cannot comply with 'their' regs I would propose they have little choice but to remove 'temporarly' our flying rights. If they failed to act I believe they would be placing themselves in a position where CASA could be critisized. And I can assure you that the small group overseeing the RAA will not allow that to occur for long.I do truely hope that change can occur allowing the organisation to prosper into the future. I have high hopes that the members will out of concern for the RAA drive change and I hope as a serving board member I have the opportunity to assist with the future development of our association.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

Don't give up that hope Jim. There's a big bunch of us commoners in the swamps who are totally dependant upon you and other 'like minded thinkers' on the Board for continued accesss to our flying freedoms. Salvation won't evolve from the GM two weeks hence and, even with the very best results, the AGM won't get us totally back on track but hopefully, by this time next year, dysfunctional board activity and impeded ability to fly RAA aircraft (to mention few items) will be a bad memory and we'll have a functional group in Canberra effectively managing our Association. In our current circumstances, Don Chipp's immortal statement "Keep the bastards honest" has a lot more import than Malcom's missal - 'Life wasn't meant to be easy". Gavin's ex-supporters are behind you 100%. Hang in and we'll help. cheers Riley

 

 

[farri]

Yes we hit a Ferris wheel...

Please Sir, Truely! I had nothing to do with hitting the Ferris wheel. Seriously though! The pilot in command of the aircraft hit the Ferris wheel and in my opinion, the responsibility ends there!

 

Frank.