Interesting, very interesting

[Deskpilot]

A new concept for flaps and ailerons. Open page and view video.

 

http://lamaviation.com/

 

 

[motzartmerv]

That is interesting. Thanx

 

 

[Sapphire]

I like the idea of automatically compensating for aileron drag and using them as speed brakes as well

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Why not...should offer some advantages......................................Maj...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

There would have to be a downside, Im thinking less aileron authority. There would need to be compensations somewhere if only using one side?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

They are really not ailerons in the true sense, but spoilers, and that's what they do, spoil the lift off that wing which causes it to drop. The first Airbus A300 and A310 used them instead of ailerons. You had to watch the use of them during a rough final approach where they would be used a lot. Because they 'kill' a little lift each time they are used they could increase the actual descent rate and the term 'aileron step' was used., as it was like going down a 'step' everytime they were used. Airbus discontinued their use with the A320.

 

Whats interesting in this case is the deployment of full span flaps which certainly would make a big difference to total lift, and may just cancel out any 'loss of lift' effect as described above.

 

Im sure they would work fine in fact some of the very first ultralights such as the Quicksilver MX, Pterydactyl and Goldwing used spoilers only for roll control, and they also could be deployed together on each wing to increase the descent rate, or act as speed brakes.................................Maj...

 

 

[DWF]

The idea is not that new. It was used in the MU2 designed in the 1960s.

 

History of the MU-2

 

The Design Concept

 

From the ground up, the MU-2 airplane was designed to be powered by a turbo propeller engine.

 

.....

 

In order to achieve the short field takeoff and landing capability for the aircraft, a highly efficient double slotted Fowler flap was chosen and designed to run the full span of the wing. A spoiler system was utilized for roll control instead of ailerons, thereby permitting the full wing flap. Use of spoilers for roll control was the latest state-of-the-art and has many advantages over typical ailerons for roll control.

 

One advantage of spoilers over ailerons is the retention of positive roll control even during slow flight, a realm in which ailerons become sluggish, heavy, and are much less effective. Spoilers are also not subject to aileron snatch. ....

 

http://www.mu-2aircraft.com/index.asp

 

 

[facthunter]

The MU-2 Was subject to difficulties with control under icing conditions, (probably rime) where the airflow is disturbed close to the leading edge. I think there were a couple of serious incidents or crashes and the plane was almost with drawn from service in australia.

 

Most jet transports use spoilers as well as aileron wich gives a good roll control but naturally some loss of lift ( unavoidable if you want a wing to go down). In cruise flight you generally only have inboard aileron and after the flaps are extended the outboard ones become effective.

 

Ailerons are a bad way of rolling a plane but a slight improvement on wing warping. ( some don't agree). Most of us have experienced adverse aileron effect. A "down" aileron does give that wing more lift but at the expense of doing it inefficiently and causing more drag, requiring positive use of rudder. Nev

 

 

[Flying Librarian]

Would I be correct in assuming that whilst this idea saves a little on rudder usage, the elevators would need to be utilised more in order to make a level turn? Would it also cut down on the number of stall spins on base to final turns??

 

 

[Sapphire]

Seems normal ailerons would produce sink as well. Drag on the up going wing and drag from the rudder to compensate.

 

 

[facthunter]

Most of the extra drag in a turn is from the requirement for the wing to provide more lift due to bank angle, and back stick. You don't have much aileron or rudder on in a turn. ( more on entry and exit) . I'm not convinced this set-up would be a great advantage for spin recovery or aerobatic flight especially inverted. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

What happens when the AofA is increased and the separation point moves forward?..The aileron would be in dirty air and become less effective i would think..

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The idea is not that new. It was used in the MU2 designed in the 1960s.History of the MU-2

 

The Design Concept

 

From the ground up, the MU-2 airplane was designed to be powered by a turbo propeller engine.

 

.....

 

In order to achieve the short field takeoff and landing capability for the aircraft, a highly efficient double slotted Fowler flap was chosen and designed to run the full span of the wing. A spoiler system was utilized for roll control instead of ailerons, thereby permitting the full wing flap. Use of spoilers for roll control was the latest state-of-the-art and has many advantages over typical ailerons for roll control.

 

One advantage of spoilers over ailerons is the retention of positive roll control even during slow flight, a realm in which ailerons become sluggish, heavy, and are much less effective. Spoilers are also not subject to aileron snatch. ....

 

http://www.mu-2aircraft.com/index.asp

The MU-2 was termed "The Widowmaker" some who flew it loved it and a lot who flew it hated it

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I'm so happy that my post has created a lot of comments. The passing on of knowledge is wonderful to see.

 

As said before, this system might be very useful to us slower flying members and I will be looking at the feasibility of doing it with one of my designs.

 

 

[M61A1]

The model wings shown about 3/4 of the way through, look very much like F111 wings. They have 2 spoilers for roll control (in conjunction with differential horizontal stabs) with full span fowler flaps.