johnmon Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 I have just purchased a Gazelle and am being instructed in how to fly. The C.F.I. is concerned that the stall warning has been removed. Any one know were I might get one?
deadstick Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 John, whats the history of the gaz? I would be tracking the previous owner to explain where it is and why it was'nt identified on the change of registration condition report. What Registration category is it in? 24, 19 etc.
johnmon Posted February 8, 2013 Author Posted February 8, 2013 John, whats the history of the gaz? I would be tracking the previous owner to explain where it is and why it was'nt identified on the change of registration condition report. What Registration category is it in? 24, 19 etc. It's a 24 I asked the previous owner and he reckons it was not fitted when he brought it. The owner before him was just as helpful.
deadstick Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 Hi John, where are you located? sounds like you need to get the plane looked over by an L2/LAME, deletion of the stall warning is an alteration of configuration by way of a mod, this can make your aircraft unairworthy as by virtue of your registration category you cannot deviate from the original factory configuration of which is reflected in the CofA granted by CASA. To do so would require a CAR35 engineer as its not an LSA and I cant see a CAR35 signing off on a Mi n equip list item. If your close to me im happy to help get it sorted 2 1
Blueadventures Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 I have just purchased a Gazelle and am being instructed in how to fly. The C.F.I. is concerned that the stall warning has been removed. Any one know were I might get one? Hi give Rob at coastal aviation a call he will be able to give advice. He has just anounced the release soon of the new coastal skyfox that he is about to market so they should have a suitable kit you may be able to retro fit within what can be done legally. Cheers Mike
dazza 38 Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 I have just purchased a Gazelle and am being instructed in how to fly. The C.F.I. is concerned that the stall warning has been removed. Any one know were I might get one? Real pilots fly aeroplanes that dont have a stall warning device like a buzzer.You shouldnt need one. Fly by feel, you dont need a stall warning horn telling you that you have stalled especially in a gazelle of all things.I think your CFI is being anal.None of the RAA aircraft that I have flown have a stall warning device. Well apart from the Jabiru.Its a bit of a Gimmick in the GA world. Just sayin. PS- a Angle of attack indicator is a great deal more usefull than a stall warning horn. 2
dazza 38 Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Seriously, having a stall warning horn going off in your headset just as the aircraft settles onto the runway.Ie- stopped flying.Is a real pain in the backside.In the air, knowing your aircrafts stall stick position IMO is more beneficial than have a stall warning horn. Stall warning horns are not used much in the LSA, Ultralight world. Honestly, they are not needed realy. 1 1
djpacro Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Any certified aeroplane requires stall warning as defined by the relevant airworthiness regulations - if not adequately provided by natural means then an artificial stall warning device must be fitted. By definition, if it is unserviceable or removed then the aircraft is unairworthy. Incidentally, in general, an aeroplane has numerous stall stick positions because it varies with CG, flap and power setting. Don't worry Dazza, you eventually learn to ignore the horn. 1 1
dazza 38 Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Any certified aeroplane requires stall warning as defined by the relevant airworthiness regulations - if not adequately provided by natural means then an artificial stall warning device must be fitted. By definition, if it is unserviceable or removed then the aircraft is unairworthy.Incidentally, in general, an aeroplane has numerous stall stick positions because it varies with CG, flap and power setting. Don't worry Dazza, you eventually learn to ignore the horn. I agree that a stall warning device must be fitted because certified A/c must be fitted as per the airworthiness regs. What I mean is that tens of thousands of ultralights, Light sport aircraft dont have them fitted & they fly just fine. Pretty stupid rules I think when for a example - A Skyfox Gazelle must have a serviceable stall warning horn, but the TW Skyfox Ultralight version does not have a Stall warning horn and dosent need it. 1
djpacro Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Not stupid. One gets a safer ride with a certified aeroplane. (my reference: NTSB report recently on Experimental Amateur-Built Aircraft) 1 2
dazza 38 Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Not stupid. One gets a safer ride with a certified aeroplane. Fair enough David I can't argue with that. Though I personally feel safe flying aircraft with no stall warning device's fitted. If I didn't feel safe, I wouldn't strap myself into them. 2 1
facthunter Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 The required stall warning in my Citabria was an annoying nuisance. If you needed that to fly safely, you shouldn't be in it, beyond the initial training stage. What point of that thing blaring on every 'normal" three point landing. Nev 1 1
Guest pookemon Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 The stall warning in our clubs 24- registered gazelle is also disabled. Our CFI says that this is because it is unreliable. On the Port wing you'll probably see an open tube that points pretty much straight down from near the Jury strut. I guess the idea is that when the airflow into the tube gets to the right level, the stall warning will sound. The problem with this method is that it could be triggered by any significant change in the airflow (a large up draft could do it). And because of the way it works, and it's location, it is very difficult and time consuming to adjust. Stalls in a Gazelle are a real non-event - and you have to be going pretty slow to even stall. There's (virtually) no buffeting, no tendency to drop a wing and you have full authority of the ailerons (which you shouldn't be using). All you do to recover from the stall is put the stick back to neutral (to get it to stall you have to have the stick embedded in the cushion on the seat) and then apply power. I've done stalls while in a climbing turn, and the Gazelle just stopped climbing and started sinking. Our CFI was super impressed with how the Gazelle performed in performance limited Turns (basically you turn hard enough that the outside wing will stall). It would drop a wing (outside wing), then that wing would start flying and lift again, and then it would repeat the process. You'd basically go from 60 to 45 then back to 60 degs bank.
Patrick Normoyle Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 David, that's a big call, to say that certified aircraft are safer than non certified ! Any facts to back this up or just an opinion ?
facthunter Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 If there's anything more docile and forgiving than a Gazelle, I've yet to find it. Nev 1
metalman Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 David, that's a big call, to say that certified aircraft are safer than non certified ! Any facts to back this up or just an opinion ? Yes the stats do back it up , there another thread that has the info on home builts crashing more, as for needing things in certified aircraft , if its original equipment then its needed, regardless of opinions , if something isn't serviceable then the aircraft isn't legal to fly it! There was some discussion about flying a 24 reg with US brakes, opinions mean nothing , just ask an insurance assessor as he walks from the room giggling at the companies good fortune in not having to pay out 1
skeptic36 Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 If there's anything more docile and forgiving than a Gazelle, I've yet to find it. Nev I've never met the woman, but I reckon Corrine Baker must be right up there ;-) 1 3
pylon500 Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 There's (virtually) no buffeting, no tendency to drop a wing. From a designer and certifier (not me) point of view, the above is actually a reason to HAVE a stall warning; ie, the aircraft does not 'tell' you that a stall is coming. Having said that, yes, the Gazelle is a totally benign thing to fly, and the stall warning is an awkward thing to adjust. I got tired of it going off at 55kts on climb out, but not even going off on full stall landings? I cured it by pulling the fuse when teaching 'ultralight' pilots. As for certification, this is still a burden we must bare until we can get more control of the decision making for recreational aircraft. 1
johnmon Posted March 29, 2013 Author Posted March 29, 2013 The stall warning in our clubs 24- registered gazelle is also disabled. Our CFI says that this is because it is unreliable. On the Port wing you'll probably see an open tube that points pretty much straight down from near the Jury strut. I guess the idea is that when the airflow into the tube gets to the right level, the stall warning will sound. The problem with this method is that it could be triggered by any significant change in the airflow (a large up draft could do it). And because of the way it works, and it's location, it is very difficult and time consuming to adjust.Stalls in a Gazelle are a real non-event - and you have to be going pretty slow to even stall. There's (virtually) no buffeting, no tendency to drop a wing and you have full authority of the ailerons (which you shouldn't be using). All you do to recover from the stall is put the stick back to neutral (to get it to stall you have to have the stick embedded in the cushion on the seat) and then apply power. I've done stalls while in a climbing turn, and the Gazelle just stopped climbing and started sinking. Our CFI was super impressed with how the Gazelle performed in performance limited Turns (basically you turn hard enough that the outside wing will stall). It would drop a wing (outside wing), then that wing would start flying and lift again, and then it would repeat the process. You'd basically go from 60 to 45 then back to 60 degs bank. I now have a retro fit stall warning fitted.(skyshop) which works well. If a 24 aircraft is manufactured with a stall then its out of certification if one is not fitted.
facthunter Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Years ago the "authority" wanted to install a stall warning on the DH 82. (Must have been a new broom there somewhere.). After a bit of argy bargy they were convinced that it was not necessary as the approach to the stall was "Normal" pre stall buffet. Nev
bilby54 Posted November 29, 2013 Posted November 29, 2013 The Gazelle stall warning is quite advanced in its concept and more complicated than it needs to be. The big thing that they forgot was to reference it to static pressure which is the commom cause of intermittent triggers of the alarm. A simple pressure switch with a small delay circuit would be more reliable.
Methusala Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 If they can stop the registration process because of a missing hyphen in the fuselage rego nos then they would probably hang you if you were found aviating without a stall warning thingy! Don
chrisb Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 What about the use of serif in the rego font?
frank marriott Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 What about the use of serif in the rego font? Why even go there, it is clear what is required, just do it and everyone is happy. 2
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