Planning ahead to ABORT?

[Guest floatHigh]

As a newbee, I have been reading about planning ahead for the possibility that I might need to abort during the takeoff roll,

 

...should there be something amiss.

 

Do you fliers actually remember to do this on every takeoff?

 

And do you actually get the time to glance at the engine instruments during that roll?

 

 

[PaulN]

Do you fliers actually remember to do this on every takeoff?

This is a sound practice. To be honest, personally I take the time to pause and think this through only about 50% of the time. Slack, I know, but when lined up on our home strip of 2120m x 45m of tarmac it's easy to take for granted that in an EFATO I'll still have plenty of strip left to come back down safely. With just me on board, the CT is off the ground in about 100m and I'm turning crosswind at 500' half way along the strip. On the other hand I often find myself viewing the terrain during approaches with thoughts of "what if" in case of an EFATO.

 

And do you actually get the time to glance at the engine instruments during that roll?

Just before power on, yes. During ground roll and early climb, no ... I'm usually concentrating on the ASI and adjacent bird activity.

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Great question,

 

I'm afraid that I come from the "sh*t happens" school of planning.

 

That means that I try to have a strategy for each take-off and landing. I think that critical in that is to plan abort points if you are not airborne by a certain point, if you are not down by a certain point and heights below which you WILL NOT TURN BACK.

 

There are a whole range of other issues but the key issue is in my view to brief yourself about not turning back below a certain height. That may well save you from a reflex suicide one day.

 

As for scanning the instruments on take-off. I have a little ritual. I backtrack to the end, turn and get the nosewheel straight and then stop. I ask my passenger if they are OK to go and if all is well I open the throttle. Once the throttle is fully open I flick a quick look at the tacho to check that I am seeing the number that I want. Then a quick flick across T&Ps then a quick flick at the ASI. My primary focus is on the feel of the a/c and watching the runway. If all is well with tacho and T&Ps then I don't look again until I am airborne and stabilised in climb. If I don't like what I see then my self-brief is that I will close the throttle and abort the take-off.

 

Regards

 

mike

 

 

[Guest danda]

I have to admit that I was one of those who lined her up and went, that was until I suffered my first engine malfunction on takeoff now I guess you could say I am a bit over cautious.

 

These things must become habits I learnt the painful way and the pain of that lesion is still with me.

 

Don

 

 

[Guest Jokerman]

> Do you fliers actually remember to do this on every takeoff?

 

Since it is the t/o roll and for the Tecnam that is only about 150m. I'd just have the nose wheel off the ground but the main wheels would still be on the ground, so if I'm not up within a set distance (bout half way to the cross runway) down comes the nose.

 

More likely issues are birds crossing the strip while on t/o roll or kangaroos bounding out, if u are taking off and that happens then down comes the nose again. Then back track.

 

> And do you actually get the time to glance at the engine instruments

 

> during that roll?

 

Nope. i glance at the RPM, flap setting, before pushing the throttle all the way in. After that I'm looking to keep the aircraft straight on the strip and watching out for birds or kangas. I think to take your eyes off the outside and look in is asking for problems.

 

After awhile u can tell if the revs aren't where u expect them to be, by ear. Most of the other issues on t/o roll are external. Liek a wing falling off... ;-)

 

Hope that helps.

 

Or as that famous philosopher Dave Gilmour said:

 

"Unheeded warnings, I thought I thought of everything,

 

No navigator to guide my way home..."

 

 

[Guest floatHigh]

Well thanks for being so honest, now I don't feel so bad! ..:)

 

Today, I forgot to do both, but then I was learning something new (low level circuits, in 500' cloud base).

 

I agree with the fact that recreational aircraft can lift off very early, and you don't have a lot of time.

 

This was case today. I flew the SportStar and I weigh 72 kgm, and the reason why I was so curious about actions of other pilots.

 

 

[Yenn]

My technique is to have a quick glance at the temps, the revs I can hear if they are not OK, get just off the ground and fly in ground effect, picking up speed till I have well over 70kts then all is well to transition to an 80kt climb which is quite flat, but gives good visibility. Normally all this happens within the 700m length of the strip, but an engine failure would put me over the road in a reasonable paddock to walk away from a forced landing.

 

 

[hfrensch]

Not only should you have a plan to abort but also have a plan in case of a engine out on take off. Yesterday I had my second engine out on take off in 13 years of flying.My current aircraft is a fuel injected Jab 6 cyl SP. I took off in nill wind conditions and at 50ft retracted the flaps as I was about to exceed flap extention speed. I then pulled the stick back to hold a climp of 1800ft/min. At about 350ft into the climb the engine stopped. This got my immediate attention and I pushed the nose level and selected my landing spot in the paddock (which was being ploughed) in front of the runway. I then scanned the instrument panel and saw a hole where the master fuse was supposed to be , at the same time I saw the fuse and cap lying in my lap. I refitted the fuse back into the at about 50ft off the ground , the engine started immediately and I contiued my delayed climb out. I did not have to change my jocks but my heart rate improved considerbly. Every time I line up to take off I decide what to do if the engine fails shortly after take off. On this runway my plan is always to land in the paddock in front. When the engine stopped I already knew where to land this gave me the oportunity to find the problem and lucky for me fix it. Why the fuse fell out well tht is another story.

 

Cheers Helmut.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Good question indeed. I too, like Pelorus, line up, usually stop depending on traffic in the circuit, ask pax if they are ok to go, advance throttle counting 1,2,3 while slowly advancing, listen, P's and T's, save strain on nose wheel by gently raising off the ground and rotate at the appropriate speed. My climb out is also fast and flat in the Jab I prefer an 80kt climb. I like to see infront, still checking P's and T's, listening and scanning for an appropriate area should something out of the ordinary occur. Just remember don't ever try to turn back should she go bang on climb out!

 

 

[dreemhi]

My own experience, limited as it is and I havn't had an engine out on take off to-date, is to be thorough in the run up before you hit the runway. Once you've started rolling I tend to find a quick glance at the instruments in general tells you that they are live, beyond that I tend to focus on heading down the centre of the runway and the airspeed indicator. Subconsciously I think your ear tends to tune to the engine note and in all the training I've done the minute that changes the stick goes forward and you start looking for the reason and the next action.

 

Once airborne is when my problems start, I'm generally that excited to be in the air again I start forgetting my proceedures and checks. I guess this means I need more and more and more practice:cool:

 

David

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I was at home when the RAAF Boeing 707 crashed off Seaspray and the 5 crew died.

 

When we counted 34 helicopters (no joke) flying over our house, we realised something big had happened!

 

There were bits and pieces floating in for years after that crash. The beach was closed and it was all kept fairly quiet. The final wrap-up left many holes open for the families of the deceased.

 

It was indeed suicide given that they were only around a few thousand feet. They shut down 2 engines on 1 side to idle, then fully powered up the opposite engines by mistake. The result was a deadly low-level spiral dive.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

This is what can happen to pilots that are too cocky. There are several reports such as these since, often involving AG pilots:

 

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2006/AAIR/aair200601509.aspx

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

I was at home when the RAAF Boeing 707 crashed off Seaspray and the 5 crew died.When we counted 34 helicopters (no joke) flying over our house, we realised something big had happened!

 

There were bits and pieces floating in for years after that crash. The beach was closed and it was all kept fairly quiet. The final wrap-up left many holes open for the families of the deceased.

 

It was indeed suicide given that they were only around a few thousand feet. They shut down 2 engines on 1 side to idle, then fully powered up the opposite engines by mistake. The result was a deadly low-level spiral dive.

I lived in Richmond NSW when that happened. We were friends with several RAAF families and the crew were all based at Richmond. That community suffered a great deal and the RAAF handling of the accident significantly contributed to the hardship. If I recall correctly the wife of the captain was also a RAAF officer and was treated very badly by the RAAF.

 

Boeing had told them not to do double assymetrics...

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[peter]

re planning ahead to abort

 

I have had significant engine problems(subaru) with my cobra so have done many fast taxi runs whilst checking the engine performance -- it is quite sobering to get to 60+ knots and then pull the power off and slow your bird down -- mine takes 350 metres to reach lift off point and then around 400 metres to slow to walking speed without using undue brake pressure -- thats a total of 750 metres.I know because I have actually measured it. If you had asked me before I would have said she was airborne in 150-200 metres. Amazing how we deceive ourselves. Our strip is only 700 metres long but has a grassed optional extension of 300 metres. In the past I only ever used the bitumen now I always check the the transition between grass and bitumen and use the entire runway. I cringe to think of the previous take offs which had minimal if any safety margin.

 

Having done many practise taxi runs it is possible to rapidly scan engine parameters during the ground roll.It just takes practise to take in the numbers at a glance - I have an electronic panel which I think helps + it has flahing and audible alarms -- a feature which helped enormously when a radiator hose split in flight.

 

Cheers Peter

 

 

[Guest floatHigh]

" Amazing how we deceive ourselves. "

 

Thanks Peter. Reading your's and other members' response makes me realize how important it is

 

to be very prepared each time you roll onto the runway.

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Darren

 

Another factor that was not mentioned in that episode at Morundah only a few miles south of here was that Ag Pilots were having a really hard time of it financially at the time and especially those that also owned working farms in the area who were suffering a double whammy. I know the ag plane owners in Griffith at the time (in very depressed business due to the drought on dry land farming and way lower than normal irrigation farm water allocations) were complaining of dramatically increased charges by the local Griffith Council for occupying land on the aerodrome and were considering moving off the field. The situation since has probably only grown worse in this area. Local pilots were flying as far afield as the SW corner of WA at the time trying to keep afloat.

 

Regards

 

 

[Yenn]

Other posts have discussed fuel injection and other electronic gizmos and Helmut's post bears out my thinking that it is better to use tried and true technology, rather than new U beut modern stuff.

 

Most Jabiru's will run full power without any electrical input, so there must be a really good reason to change to something which needs electrical power to keep going.

 

the situation was very well handled by Helmut, but I bet he would rather not have had to be in that situation.

 

 

[Guest floatHigh]

Noticed there was more than one mention that listening to the engine (pre-take off) that all is well before rolling forward as sufficient guide,

 

but I guess the prop could disintegrate at any time too?

 

 

[Guest Booker YPMQ]

A million scenarios are possible and realistically the one that will happen to you one day is one that you probably haven't thought of. So I think it is simple enough to remember that if things go pear shapped after take off. NOSE DOWN - BEST GLIDE - DON'T TURN BACK!!!!!! and take it from there. Of course there's more to it than that like fule off, mags off, master off if there is time but just don't forget the basics.

 

 

[Guest Jokerman]

You're right there are a million scenarios. However it is good to cover them on the ground and go through what we'd do. It certainly gives a good starting point when things go pear shaped for real...

 

Gordon