Safe or Not ?

[Rolf]

I am a fairly green pilot without my own wings .

 

I can hire a drifter but am not quite sure if I should trust it.

 

-No Fuel gauge for main tank,

 

-Wing tanks out of service

 

-Exhaust temp gauges not working

 

With the fuel gauge I think it is sort of managable, fill to the bim and be back after one hour. But wwhat if somwething starts leaking anyway.

 

What I am not sure about is how important the exhaust temp gauges are. I believe they are to manage the motor temperature, but not sure.

 

Can some Rotex 2 stroke gurus shed some light for me

 

Thanks very much and despite not being able to contribute much with my limited experience , love the forum . Best information source I found.

 

 

[rgmwa]

If those are the things you know are wrong with it, how much might be wrong that you don't know about?

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Sapphire]

If you know your fuel flow then you can work out your endurance[how long you can stay in the air] My last a/c did not have any fuel guage visible to the pilot and that was standard. If it has some place to put fuel and works, then you can go. Exhaust gas temp guage tells you of overheating before any cyl hd temp guage. If you fly without it you can't catch any overheating situation that would cause the engine to fail. Anyways, these small single ignition, no carby heat engines are always flown as if they are about to quit.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

EGT isn't that important, water temp/CHT is. Keep to a cruise speed of 5800 RPM and use a stopwatch

 

 

[Riley]

If those are the things you know are wrong with it, how much might be wrong that you don't know about?rgmwa

I'm with rgmwa. If you aren't 100% comfortable with everything you can think of before the flight that might try to bite you in the bum, then go back and satisfy your doubts before you start. Having but one ass to put on the line - it just makes sense not to waste it. Your very wise questioning as a 'newbie' will certainly go a long way towards ensuring you'll get to be a 'know-it-all-old-fart' like the rest of us (even if we don't) and the odds are pretty good that you'll keep happily flying. Have fun.

 

 

[planet47]

Actually I have learned to think "if in doubt don't go out". There have been times I have been lucky in mine - as I have recently been reminded my arse is the first thing on the ground. My quicksilver doesn't have a fuel guage but I know what the fuel usage rate is and I have a hobbs meter so I think along the lines of "be back around the time the meter reads ......". I fly where I can land ie above beaches, paddocks, roads, stuff like that. I am with Sapphire on thinking fly them as if they are about to quit and keep a listen out on the motor. Think about what you would do if you detected a change in the sound of that motor if you were taking off on crosswind doing a 500ft circuit or out and about at 1500ft. Drifters are a hoot to fly but just think ahead.

 

 

[Gentreau]

If those are the things you know are wrong with it, how much might be wrong that you don't know about?rgmwa

I agree with that sentiment. Might be worth understanding why the aircraft is available for hire with that many known faults.

 

Are you confident in the owner/operator and whoever is maintaining it ?

 

Not sure about your regs in Oz, but if it's for hire, aren't there higher maintenance standards required ??

 

.

 

 

[planet47]

Question Rolf - do you have a 2 stroke endorsement?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

EGT isn't that important, water temp/CHT is. Keep to a cruise speed of 5800 RPM and use a stopwatch

Hi Tornado. . . . whilst my old flexwiung trike has an aircooled engine, it has always been my practice to keep an eye on the EGT FIRST,. . . . and the CHT second. . . . . with my experience using Rotax aircooled engines, if the CHT indicates a redline, then this usually means that the cylinder has already suffered some damage due to overheating. Obviously with liquid cooled motors, you have the luxury of a coolant temperature gauge also, which is of course an added safeguard. The originator of this thread didn't state whethr the "Drifter" ( with which I am not familiar at all ) has either, both, or all three monitoring systems available on the panel.

 

I can safely operate my aircraft with EGT only, and be quite assured that if kept at a reasonable temperature, it will not give me any unpleasant surprises. ( Unpleasant meaning a forced landing when I told the missus I was working, and not flying )

 

 

[Bernie]

Stay on the ground.

 

Bernie.

 

 

[facthunter]

You haven't mentioned how much recent flying this aircraft has done. If it has been laid up, forget it without a good inspection of the whole aircraft. The fuel pump would have to be in perfect condition. The whole thing sounds suss. By the time you notice the overtemping situation (EGT) the engine is stressed ( overheating) because of lean mixture and about to fail. The EGT gauge (s) are used as a check on mixture. The engine should run cooler on full throttle as the mixture is purposely enriched there. The fuel must be freshly mixed filters clean etc. This is an aeroplane not a lawnmower. Nev

 

 

[winsor68]

Is the aircraft "airworthy"?

 

 

[flyerme]

Is the aircraft "airworthy"?

NO!! what level 2 would pass it with any faults? main concern would be "the wing tanks out of service"!!

they would need replacing or re-servicing ,surly? I would suggest finding something maintained a bit better or have a good talk with the owner about your rightly so concerns...good luck and STAY SAFE.

 

 

[winsor68]

Unless it is 19 regoed... in which case is it still technically a Drifter?

 

If it is under 24 it was my understanding that in order to be "legal" the aircraft had to be maintained in the same condition as when it left the factory...

 

This is a whole can of worms within Ra-Aus... and many may not like it... but it is what it is until we change it. Just ignoring it will not make it go away... and in fact has recently resulted in a whole heap of trouble for Ra-Aus which it seems many people from the very top to the bottom still don't get.

 

 

[Rolf]

Planet 47

 

No but my instructor is flying with me to get my LP Tailwheel and 2stroke endorsement (Didmy license on Jabiru 230)

 

When it comes to never to fly over tiger country is a hard one up here in the Top End. As soon as you leave the greater Darwin area there is only tiger country and the odd gravel road.

 

Thanks for all the tips from everyone

 

 

[facthunter]

I would suggest that you and your instructor are illegal. The plane should be 24 registered and airworthy and serviced as required or a 19 that you part or fully own. This will show up in your log book, ( a legal document) and the information sent to RAAus for your certificate changes. OOPS... Nev

 

 

[damkia]

To the OP, walk away - while you still can.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Please calm down my faithful nanny-staters.

 

The drifter hasn't got wing tanks. It's water cooled so it has a water temp gauge, the EGTs aren't that accurate when they work due to the long wires and old age and they never had fuel gauges fitted.

 

 

[M61A1]

Please calm down my faithful nanny-staters.The drifter hasn't got wing tanks. It's water cooled so it has a water temp gauge, the EGTs aren't that accurate when they work due to the long wires and old age and they never had fuel gauges fitted.

For the record, I'm pretty sure I have seen certain models of Drifter with wing tanks and some with a low fuel level warning. EGT are a good engine management tool even if not totally accurate....they will indicate a spike(up or down).

In any case, if it were me, I would be having a pretty good look over the whole aircraft ( I normally do anyway), assess the general condition and talk to the instructor about your concerns. If you're uncomfortable about it, go elswhere.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

A pre-flight inspection prior to booking is essential, Drifters are getting pretty old and there are more than a few that need some money spent on them. Lots of things to check for.

 

 

[lark]

It costs nothing to walk away!

 

 

[Yenn]

If you don't know what the EGTs tell you, it would not make any difference wether or not they worked. You may be told that CHT is all you need, but it is possible for the EGT to point to a problem ithout the CHT getting too high. I wonder why the plane is used for instruction or hire in that condition, but would suggest you get your head around what the EGT gauge is designed to tell you.

 

 

[Sapphire]

The bit about a two stroke running cooler at full throttle than low power is interesting. That at first forced me to do big ciruits with a long power driven final in a low drag Sapphire. Watch the EGT guage when you pull the power way back-it shoots up like a rocket. Then I read some where that the heat energy produced with the power back was not sufficient to damage the engine.[not much fuel/air] So I did more normal circuits allowing the egt to go up. Never had problems in the short term. But then, if you read around enough you can always find something that agrees with what you want to hear. So the big question is how high can the egt go in this engine before it does damage-if it does damage at all.

 

 

[Rolf]

Hi facthunter

 

You got me a bit concerned about the legality. Probably to shed some more light on the situation

 

The drifter is owned by our flying club and the club is hiring it to club members at an hourly fee.

 

My instructor is a club member but also operates an independ flying school.

 

And yes it has wing tanks but they are out of service as the plane had been unregisterd for a while and the tanks wing tanks have not been cleaned and checked yet.

 

But with all the feedback so far I might ring the RAAUST OP manager to double check.

 

Thanks guys

 

 

[motzartmerv]

There is no requirement (as far as I know) for an EGT. If it is in the POH as mandatory engine equipment then the aeroplane is not serviceable. I would be surprised if it is however.

 

The same goes for the fuel gauge.