Student Costs for Dual Training RA-Aus

[cooperplace]

I found a school in Arizona offering the c120 for $50 an hour. Probably done a million hours but its better than catching the bus.

if it's done a million hours, catching the bus might be a lot safer; sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

 

[cooperplace]

Spare a thought for our American brothers, they can get fixed price "sport pilot licences*" for $2500-3000. That's a minimum of 20 hours of which 5 hours are solo plus all the ground school...* equivalent of an RAA certificate including passenger and nav endorsements

yeah, but everyone is different, so just because someone got their licence for $2500-3000 doesn't mean that everyone, or even most people, should expect to.

 

 

[Methusala]

I have a friend who's training near Canberra paying 218/hr in a Gazelle. Don

 

 

[metalman]

I have a friend who's training near Canberra paying 218/hr in a Gazelle. Don

Wow,,,,500ft circuits and keep it in tight,,,,although you'd get your x country at the same time if you flew it wider ;-)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

There are a couple of reasons why the US has cheaper flying lessons. One is that the same school does the sport pilot as GA, so no duplication of infrastructure and assets, no duplication of insurance policies and maintenance facilities. The path from sport pilot to GA is lesser, none of the BS about GA schools not acknowledging hours spent flying ultralights. So no duplication is certification for instructors.

 

It seems that the RAA model has created its own overheads which will lift the cost of learning.

 

 

[dodo]

Near Sydney, Jabiru LSA 55, $150 dual

 

Riverland, J170 $160 dual

 

My opinion is that not much lower than $150 is feasible dual if the instructor is paid, $120 otherwise. The cost of running a training aircraft won't decrease much with a simpler aircraft.

 

dodo

 

 

[68volksy]

I have a friend who's training near Canberra paying 218/hr in a Gazelle. Don

That's damn expensive for a Gazelle! He should try driving out to Goulburn - $170 an hour dual for the Gazelle (plus $20 bloody landing fee per session but that's a whinge for another thread). $30/hour is a big difference! Goulburn also has the J170 for $190/hour dual and the Sportstar for $200/hour dual (again - plus landing fees).

 

Main variations in costs between schools is who maintains the aircraft, how much they pay their instructors and the depreciation/loan repayments of the aircraft used. Going rate for paid senior RA-Aus instructors is $40-50 an hour for someone of decent quality. There is a massive variation in the running costs of aircraft between schools also - some schools do all their own maintenance whilst others employ external LAME's or L2's. Basically some schools are run for profit, some for love and some for a happy middle-ground...

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Thanks for your imputs all, I am not here to judge any of the costs of flying schools they all have their overheads and profits that they need to maintain to stay in business, but it is interesting just looking at the different comments about training costs, there certainly are some differences in prices, so it really does come down to your budget and the quality of the training that your are recieving from your trainers and the aircraft your are training in and the general support for the owner of the school to the CFI and instructors.

 

So to sum it up, I guess look at the cost per hour against the quality of the instructing that you are getting, the aircraft and I think also the personal feeling you get while there, do you feel like they welcome you as part of the school or are you treated just like another paying customer, I think that is very important.

 

I guess you have to shop around your area and find a school that accomodates your budget and your personality and if all of this is there then it may well me worth spending more money to train there ...

 

David

 

 

[dodo]

I agree with your assessment, but I found that judging the quality of the instruction is very difficult for a student. While it is very important, it is also too difficult.

 

dodo

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The easy way to work out if your school is a good one is too ask how many pilots graduated in the last year. If the instructor can't give you an instant number, you know they don't consider graduating as a school priority.

 

 

[dodo]

Graduating as a school priority...is that good or bad? The best instructor I have had wanted me to fly well. The certificate was secondary (not unimportant, but secondary).

 

I think all of them knew exactly who had gone solo when, and when they got their license. Mind,all were small operations - max three instructors in a school, and at that one,two of them were part time.

 

dodo

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Not graduating pilots would be a bad thing. I've heard quiet a few people walk away from flying because the school was mucking them around. I wonder how many of those people would be flying today if the school had encouraged them.

 

 

[facthunter]

I would think that was true ft. When people are paying for the privilege you should look after them. Certainly never show anger. If they are really THAT bad let them know there may be other hobbies they are better suited to. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

The easy way to work out if your school is a good one is too ask how many pilots graduated in the last year. If the instructor can't give you an instant number, you know they don't consider graduating as a school priority.

Really??? That's a new one.. Graduating?? What are we all Americans now? Is this top gun??

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I would say graduate as its a tertiary education. You say passing because its like the money pot is "passing on"?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Do I? What money pot? You think instructors make money doing this ? Sorry to dissapoint you lad;) but we don't . And yes, every test form I've seen has a pass or fail box. Graduating sounds like your late for your prom ;)

 

 

[Gentreau]

..... Graduating sounds like your late for your prom ;)

Isn't that what you do to a paddock when you want to mack an airstrip ??

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The yanks are smart they attach flying schools to universities.

 

 

[M61A1]

The yanks are smart .

I've not heard that said before...

[motzartmerv]

The yanks are smart they attach flying schools to universities.

Sort of like we do hey? UNSW and Vic do aswel I believe. :)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I was reading an AOPA report on the state of the flying school industry in the US, 2000 they did 110,000 licences, that pre dates the sport pilot licence and now they are down to only 50,000. So they must be doing something right.

 

Does anyone know how many RAA pilots are produced each year? It could be a bit hard to tell when the RAA don't seem to know how many pilots they look after.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes, and the USA also have 20 million people incarcerated in prisons. Apples to oranges FT, when the entire population of our country could fit in their prison system comparing numbers is as useful as titts on a bull.;)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

enjoy

 

 

 

[coljones]

Hm, brings up an issue doesn't it. We seem to pay most of our instructors less than we pay staff at Coles or Woolies.

 

Maybe we should commit to paying our instructors more than $20 t0 $30 an hour for, in some cases, much less than 1000 hours per year (but they still have to hang around to turn out the lights at the end of the day) - most of us earn much more than that yet our instructors are highly skilled and live dangerous lives.

 

IMHO

 

 

[nong]

My students don't graduate and they don't fly airplanes either !

 

I charge $170 per hour, all up, for instruction in J160 at Wagga.