What Aussie challengers are there for the Jabiru?

[Guest Howard Hughes]

There are engine manufacturers and there are aircraft manufacturers, it is very difficult to be both. Given the small market in Oz and the current export problems, you'd have to say Jabiru are doing fairly well for themselves.

 

 

[Marty_d]

High reving car and motorcycle engines run at about 10 - 20% 90% of the time whereas aircraft engines have to operate at 75% 90% of the time.

Good point - although the Honda VFR750 I used to own would happily sit on 5000 rpm all day when touring (redline was 11,500 so a bit more than 20%.)

One for the LAME's - are purpose-built aircraft engines such as Rotax "beefed up" or in any substantial way (engineering, metallurgy etc) different from motorbike engines?

 

Thanks for the info... I learn heaps from this site.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

I think he said Rotax not rotex.

Yes your right

 

 

[Thirsty]

The revs an engine is doing isn't related directly to the power they are making - the 20% referred to is power output not revs. An unloaded engine doing redline is not making as much power as the same engine at 50% of revs being thrashed up a long hill in top gear so the load on the engine is more relevant.

 

Aircraft engines are (or should be!) designed to handle running at 75% power for long periods of time. I think Rotax have got the formula right while Jabiru have undercooked the engine in a couple of places. So yes, the design of an aircraft engine is different to a motorcycle engine though the materials used are similar.

 

 

[lark]

Had a look at the Brumby site. Aircraft look Great! Think this has alot to do with the fact they havent tried to re-invent the wheel. They seem to have stuck with tried and tested construction methods and materials.

 

 

[Thirsty]

I also love the Brumby and the Lightwing Speed but they're both pretty heavy. I wish we had a higher MTOW (I think they're both 600KG) on these two then we could build GA experimental and load 'em up.

 

This is the main reason I like Morgans over these two. That plus lower cost.

 

 

[metalman]

Had a look at the tecnam taildragger today, beautifully built plane ,,,,also about $150k,,,,,and pretty heavy 360kg with a a Rotax ,even heavier with the lycoming

 

Met

 

 

[winsor68]

If only the Drifter was back in production... or the Fisher as factory built... or the Thruster....there is your Aussie Challenger.

 

 

[David Isaac]

The Fisher Drifter would be a real contender except that people want to fly inside aircraft these days not outside or on them ... LOL

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Yes you could build a copy of any of the 912 series, but it would be just that ... a copy. If I was going to have any copy of an existing aero engine made in China, I would want a team of quality control inspectors to check every component, sub-assembly and assembly, then I'd want some expert people to bench test each engine before it was pushed out the factory door.

Chinese engines are fine, on what foundation do you post your considerations?

 

But anyway, what the problem really is, is to co-ordinate so many component manufacturers to come together to produce such small numbers each - very difficult and you would also have to rely on smaller not so accurate small businesses and that's when trouble would show it's hand. as you would only need one of them to be sub-standard to break the chain.

 

But that was 50 years ago. Anything that you buy now that uses electricity comes from China, computers, TVs, phones, electrical appliances, tools.

Well kind of, Hong Kong and Taiwan actually, China mainland doesn't do much in that area, costs us just as much here as it does to you guys due to it having to be imported just the same from HK and Tw.

 

 

[old man emu]

Chinese engines are fine, on what foundation do you post your considerations?But anyway, what the problem really is, is to co-ordinate so many component manufacturers to come together to produce such small numbers each - very difficult and you would also have to rely on smaller not so accurate small businesses and that's when trouble would show it's hand. as you would only need one of them to be sub-standard to break the chain.

I've nothing against Chinese engines, or other manufactured items, but you have answered your own question by saying that some small businesses do not produce accurate products. If the engine was built in the one factory from start to finish, then I would have no problems. If you were building most of the engine in one factory, but using outsources components, then I would expect that there should be rigorous Quality Control inspections at the parts receiver point in the manufacturing chain. Also, I would expect that workers on the engine assembly line would be more skilled than similar workers on an automotive engine line.

 

Stringent quality control of components and assembly processes is the only way that an airplane engine can be trusted by the end user. And yes, all engine manufacturers suffer from assembly mistkes from time to time.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[facthunter]

Even one of the later continental engines had a failure of a valve rocker. This item was CAST instead of forged. Casting might work but this one had a flaw in it and the engine failed as a result. It only takes ONE part. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Every part of our economy has been impacted by the resources boom, and Australia still can't seem to train enough engineers and tradespeople. Jabiru is located close to a mining region. I bet they have difficulty attracting and retaining qualified people.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I've nothing against Chinese engines, or other manufactured items, but you have answered your own question by saying that some small businesses do not produce accurate products.

Sure but that's true in any country for any product.

 

The biggest problem you have in China and a few other coutries, is where graft is considered cultural rather than the view we take on it.

 

The worst thing that happens is the Purchasing Officer in the company is on say a $500 per month, when a faulty batch of whatever comes through the manufacturer slips the PO a month's salary to not to notice (that manufacturer was chosen by the PO in the first place because he copped a red envelope so was never going to kick up a fuss anyway) and it's that kind of crap that needs to be cleaned up in China if they are to push forward. Where Western controlled companies here do better is by having their own men in Goods Recieved and QA/QC, not because they are any better, in fact Chinese QA/QC are very dilligent, it's that they can't be bribed. When I first came here near 10 years ago and was visiting factories, I noticed how many PO's had cars where other managers were still riding bicycles, obvious is obvious.

 

FWIW my 2005 Mazda 6 was one of the first off the Chinese production line with the Japanese 2.3 and auto and the only trouble I've had in 210,000kms is with the Jap auto box.

 

 

[68volksy]

I reckon refueling during training is a very important part of training for proper fuel management. Sure it may cut down on the air time at the cost of profits for the school... but in my opinion at the cost of good training for students.(I am not an expert- I just know that refueling the aircraft was a very important aspect of my training)

Agree that it's an important aspect to learn but it's the queuing up waiting for the idiots who seem to have taken a liking to parking their aircraft in front of the bowserwhilst you run around the airport looking for them for 20 minutes that's the major pain. Your instructor should have you fly in the last flying slot of the day at least once in your training also so you will get a chance to refuel the aircraft and put it into the hanger then in my view.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Maybe at least spend a day manning the bowser.