What Aussie challengers are there for the Jabiru?

[old man emu]

Well that's a contradiction if ever I saw one - leave the Jabs alone then.

Now there's the rub! If we say, "No!" to servicing Jabirus for the flying school and the private owners who come to us because we have a good reputation for quality work (no advertising intended), where are they going to get their servicing done? The private owners are people who don't want to put a spanner in their hands, but appreciate that their airplanes deserve good maintenance and are willing to pay to have that done.

 

Also, with the amount of experience we have in our shop, we are in a good position to identify problems with the brand before they are commonly know. Then we can be the first to bash our heads against the Bundaberg barn doors.

 

OME

 

 

[fly_tornado]

But why punish the British/Mooney owners by not servicing their planes?

 

 

[David Isaac]

Yeah OME ... whats wrong with my Gypsy Major ... LOL

 

 

[facthunter]

To get a life. Mooneys are "funny". nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Good Aussie aircraft. The Victa Airtourer, Sadly killed off by government, who bought it when it was taken over by New Zealand.

 

We won't get an Aussie plane all the while we have the tall poppy syndrome of knockers.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Good Aussie aircraft. The Victa Airtourer, Sadly killed off by government, who bought it when it was taken over by New Zealand.We won't get an Aussie plane all the while we have the tall poppy syndrome of knockers.

Great little plane, I learned in the Rallye MS 880B and the Victa 100. I call the 100 the 'Small Block' version. The 'Big Block' is the 115 LOL. Mazda from this site owns a little 'Big Block'.

Can you believe that our Feds didn't support Victa so the business went to NZ and we then bought the CT4 trainers back as our primary Airforce trainer ... go figure that one.

 

 

[68volksy]

The eurofox can come with either landing gear, David, and there is a lot of mis information about the Skyfox/gazelles, they have issues but no different to any other aircraft, the biggest problem with them is the company is no longer around so there's a big problem with any minor problems.the spars are fine ,they had a "life" imposed by CASA to be review as the aircraft spent time in service,the company folds so no review is able to be done, so far there has never been a spar failure in one with some aircraft doing double the "lifed"hours. ( in private use of course)So what is everyone's ideal trainer that is a good personal aircraft as well?

To me it's the following

 

Tubular fuse (easy to repair ,time tested strength, )

 

Stall speeds in the mid to low thirtys

 

At least 45 inches wide at the shoulders

 

Easily convertible from tricycle to taildragger

 

4 hours endurance

 

95-100 knots cruise ( in actual speed not salesman speed)

 

Flaps ( I prefer manual but an option of electric)

 

Simple panel

 

912 rotax ( although the UL engine seems to be a good thing but time will tell)

 

Toe brakes

 

Enough adverse yaw to ensure good rudder use

 

Sharp ,defined stall ( no mushing down tail low)

 

Spin tested ( must be recoverable even if we can't teach spins)

 

Can't think of any more but that's a good start,

 

Met

To me the castoring nosewheel just adds an extra complication for the ab-initio pilot with no gain to the quality of training. If that castoring nosewheel is offline the slightest bit on touch down your low-hour student is in the ditch before they've got time to know what's happened. Can be just a plain pain when it comes to pushing things into and out of and around the hangers too.

 

Good trainer needs at least 6 hours endurance - too many need refuelling half-way through the day which cuts a huge chunk out of productive time - especially at busy airports. I don't rate the need for spinning or adverse yaw very highly - there's a lot of good aircraft out there that do not possess these characteristics. Good 200kg usable load with full fuel would be great as there are plenty of guys in the 90-130 kg range nowadays.

 

Both my favourites have now been mentioned - the Gazelle and the good old Airtourer! Love the Airtourer - a proper "sports aircraft" which could cruise at 100 knots for hours and then when you strapped things down you could have a heck of a lot of fun up there doing some simple aerobatics! I love the idea of planning a nav and along the way thinking "i'll just do a quick loop":)

 

 

[David Isaac]

.... I love the idea of planning a nav and along the way thinking "i'll just do a quick loop":)

You old maniac you ...LOL

[Guernsey]

If you did do a loop and were flying into a head wind, you would have to recalculate your ETA by adding the time it took to complete the loop plus of course the additional time taken to make up for the distance from your starting point to your new position after the loop which would be further behind due to the head wind pushing you backwards. .

 

You might also topple your gyros which could ruin your sex life.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

To me the castoring nosewheel just adds an extra complication for the ab-initio pilot with no gain to the quality of training. If that castoring nosewheel is offline the slightest bit on touch down your low-hour student is in the ditch before they've got time to know what's happened. Can be just a plain pain when it comes to pushing things into and out of and around the hangers too..

Volksy,

 

Just the opposite. At touch down the wheel simply castors in the direction of travel. The "exit stage left" is usually caused by fat feet on the brakes, instead of "heels on the floor", or putting the aircraft down pointing off to the left 'cause the pilot is looking through the prop centre rather than straight ahead.

 

Pushing around the hangar though, I agree is a bit of a pain in the **se. So is taxying in a strong crosswind. And there is that time on takeoff and landing when the airspeed is not high enough for the rudder to work, but the crosswind is turning the aircraft, requiring brake pressure to steer.

 

In general I agree with you, I don't like them.

 

 

[facthunter]

The castoring nosewheel is a pain. Impossible to push it backwards and x-wind taxiing *^%$%#. Forget remaking the Gazelle. While it is about the easiest plane to fly ever It has it's faults. It would be nice to incorporate it's niceties into something else. the undercambered wing is a bit quaint and probably helps it to fail when the plane overspeeds . The Zlin hi wing T/W has potential but doesn't sell in big numbers.

 

What airframe is as easy to look after as a Jabiru? The rest of them require time and brains and a good hangar and keep the hangar rash at bay. Nev

 

 

[DGL Fox]

I talked to Rob from Coastal Aviation a week or so ago, the manufacturers of the Gazelle from up here on the Sunshine Coast and he told me they were bringing out a new model Gazelle with new improvements this year, he also told me that you they can supply parts for the old model Gazelle if required.

 

Looking forward to seeing new version.

 

David

 

 

[old man emu]

But why punish the British/Mooney owners by not servicing their planes?

We don't punish them. We have just chosen not to develop our levels of expertise on these particular airplanes, so the level of customer satisfaction would not be to the high level we expect of ourselves.

OME

 

 

[nong]

Don't take offence to this Nong but patriotism is a subjective thing. More than a few of us can trace our heritage back to European ancestors, who no doubt would be proud to see us flying behind fine Austrian power plants.

Well f-t, I think there are all kinds of problems with patriotism and plenty of idiots and freaks who do bad things in the name of their country.

Possibly you think that Australia should abandon sovereignty and simply be a client state. If so, you will give no preference to aussie manufacture. Your suggestions regarding place of manufacture are noted.

 

My thought is that we should remain a sovereign nation. Therefore, I will buy locally manufactured aircraft if reasonably possible.

 

 

[David Isaac]

... if reasonably possible.

I don't disagree Nong. Your three words are key ... three reasons in determining possibility:

Quality (Reliability)

 

Performance (does it meet basic requirements for use: structure, safety, function)

 

Price (both initial and maintenance)

 

 

[turboplanner]

If you did do a loop and were flying into a head wind, you would have to recalculate your ETA by adding the time it took to complete the loop plus of course the additional time taken to make up for the distance from your starting point to your new position after the loop which would be further behind due to the head wind pushing you backwards. .You might also topple your gyros which could ruin your sex life.

Alan.

Those who have flown the V115 know that this is calculated automatically, and the gyros never tumble.

 

 

[dazza 38]

We don't punish them. We have just chosen not to develop our levels of expertise on these particular airplanes, so the level of customer satisfaction would not be to the high level we expect of ourselves.OME

Very professional OME. It's good to hear that there are maintenance organisations out there who develope expertise on particular brands of aircraft & not try & work on them all.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

My thought is that we should remain a sovereign nation. Therefore, I will buy locally manufactured aircraft if reasonably possible.

But the Jabiru is built well technically "assembled" from parts machined in China and GM parts that come from who knows where. I am happy to buy Australian when it won't kill me...

 

 

[facthunter]

Where did you get the idea that assembled from parts machined in china is correct? The pistons do fit some holden but may still be made in australia. The holden ones were.." Buy australian when it won't kill me". You are never specific . Just reciting a one liner with no real meaning, contributes NOTHING!!!. Have you ever researched any of this Jab stuff.? Nev

 

 

[68volksy]

I talked to Rob from Coastal Aviation a week or so ago, the manufacturers of the Gazelle from up here on the Sunshine Coast and he told me they were bringing out a new model Gazelle with new improvements this year, he also told me that you they can supply parts for the old model Gazelle if required.Looking forward to seeing new version.

David

Bring it on! Best news i've heard for a while. It's such a strong and forgiving airframe with so few and minor faults it's great to hear they're coming back. So long as the improvements don't alter the basic formula they'll have an order or two from down our way. They just supplied us with a couple of shiny new props which was great as we were about to write an aircraft off or sell it to a private pilot as there were no certified props available anywhere to allow its continued use in the school.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You didn't know that Jabiru started importing semi finished Chinese parts a few years ago?

 

 

[winsor68]

Good trainer needs at least 6 hours endurance - too many need refuelling half-way through the day which cuts a huge chunk out of productive time

I reckon refueling during training is a very important part of training for proper fuel management. Sure it may cut down on the air time at the cost of profits for the school... but in my opinion at the cost of good training for students.

(I am not an expert- I just know that refueling the aircraft was a very important aspect of my training)

 

 

[facthunter]

That's not what you said though is it ? ft. You said they "assembled" parts from china. A big difference. You don't deal in facts. You deal in impressions. Nev

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Bring it on! Best news i've heard for a while. It's such a strong and forgiving airframe with so few and minor faults it's great to hear they're coming back

Well its sounds good Volksy...I think he said it will be upgraded with a Rotex 100hp if you want it and I think he said that the wings will be all metal.... not 100% sure but I think that is what he told me, I hope I am not letting the cat out of the bag here.. If I am I am sorry Rob ..just we are all looking forward to the news of the new version...

 

David

 

 

[dazza 38]

Well its sounds good Volksy...I think he said it will be upgraded with a Rotex 100hp if you want it and I think he said that the wings will be all metal.... not 100% sure but I think that is what he told me, I hope I am not letting the cat out of the bag here.. If I am I am sorry Rob ..just we are all looking forward to the news of the new version... David

I think he said Rotax not rotex.