Big Kev Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Guys/ Gals, It's taken a while (a few years!), but I finally tried on a GR last w/e, at Holbrook. In my intro post I was advised, due to my dimensions (6'6", 130kg), that I would fit, and this is indeed the case. Very comfortably too, although the pedals and brakes could go forward........ What I have found in my research on both 582 and 912 versions, are great variations in minimum and max weights. Minimum I can understand variations in via options/ inclusions, however the maximums are surprising. For instance, I was under the impression that 582's were about 240/450kg, 912's 290/544 or 600? Yet, the 912 I tried was 480? Also, another thread on this forum talks about the goalposts being moved in relation to the 582, bringing them down to 400 under 25- reg I think it is? For what I want I have the 582 in mind, there appears to be some around atm, and I wonder whether this rego issue is part of it? Is there likely to be a sensible outcome to the prop issue? I'd have thought Howie's site would have all the detail I'd need, but to no avail. Maybe specs could be stickied in the Lightwing users section? Cheers Big Kev 1 1
dazza 38 Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Yep, I have been confused as well. Howies web site has stated 600KG for the GR912.But GR912 aircraft I have seen are placarded 544. No wonder people get confused with all these different MTOW's. 1
Guest nunans Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 I don't know the histors of all the models But my gr912 is also 480kg. i think the latest ones are 600kg. As the rules allowed heavier limits over time the the actual manufacturer mtow moved up with it. not so long ago when ra limit was 544 the manufacturers only tested the airframes to 544 as there was no point going any further on the day. On a separate note how did you go for headroom? mine has a diagonal brace above both seats right where my head is and i'll have to move the seats a fair bit to get in front or behind it. A pain the the a§§.
Doug Evans Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 this is what I have of my she was 544 kg but they have dropped my back too 400 kg Hope this helps 1
biggles5128 Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 Ive got a headache from hanging upside down.... 2 3
flyerme Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 .LightWing GR582=I JUST COMPLETED TRANSFER AND RE-REG. Sent in pics of the place cards,as per owners manual my Gr582 is registered at 480kg. I have a genuine copy of the GR582 flight manual and included is a section on place cards MTOW 480kg.I sent a pic of this straight out of the GR582 manual that also states "RAA have approved this flight manual " 1 1
Doug Evans Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 Ive got a headache from hanging upside down.... Sorry just don't get caught doing acrobatic
Big Kev Posted March 1, 2013 Author Posted March 1, 2013 Flyerme, what is the empty weight, and what rego prefix? What prop do you have? I just don't get it. I'm prepared to buy, but not partake in a lottery. And I thought CAMS are poor at regulating........ Cheers Big Kev 1
Guest nunans Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 If you're intending to buy at the moment I suggest only agreeing to pay once the rego is transfered into your name (it isn't a cert of title so should pose no problems that way). Only then will you know the aircraft details have been stamped by the CASA rego consultant and as such, that way you avoid suprises if you were to transfer the rego after taking delivery..
flyerme Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 max empty weight=302kg(as per manufacturers place card) max empty weight permitted=250kg mtow=480kg (as per manufacturer place card) mtow permitted 480kg 95.55 25-00%^ reg till: jan /21/ 2014 bolly 2 blade 68" ground adjustable carbon ,certified by howard houghs and peter at bolly props.
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 My GR912 is S/no 140 built in 2000. Placarded as follows : Max empty weight:......302 kg. Max takeoff Weight:....480 Kg. Max Landing Weight:..480 Kg. Disposable payload....... 178 Kg. However, I recently purchased a Flight manual from Howie for 'quote': Australian Lightwing GR and GA 912-S-LSA...Including aircraft built from 1986 to 2011...'end Quote. wherein it shows:.... Max empty weight:.......350 Kg. Max takeoff Weight:.....600 Kg. Max landing Weight:....600 Kg. Disposable payload:.......250 Kg. My aircraft was listed on the Raaus rego sheet as a GR-582, but I had that changed a couple of years ago to GR 912, which it is, and always has been. It came out of the factory new with a 912, and never has had a 582 in it. Are the Flight manual figures correct for my aircraft ??...and is it placarded incorrectly for a 582.....enquiring minds need to know ??.!!....And which takes precedence..the affixed aircraft placard, or the Official factory Flight manual.?..................................................Maj...
Doug Evans Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 Yes maj I have ask this question with dean op tec with RAA via email ? We see ....... 1
Guest nunans Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 Guessing here, Maybe the same aircraft construction from 1986 to 2011 was tested for more and more weight over the years as the weight limit went up
Big Kev Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 Nunans, Just re read this thread, and saw your Q regards the headroom. I was very aware of the diag, would seriously pad it but didn't consider it an issue. I'm used to dealing with my head close to roll cages and it wasn't bad. You must be some big dude to have it concern you!! On another note, what is max empty weight? I'd have thought that empty weight for w/b is listed in the log book? Cheers Kevin
Guest nunans Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 maybe its to do with my seat position then because i'm under 6 foot and even without a headset on the top of my head rubs on the bar and when i put a headset on i have to kink my neck over to fit below the bar. If i moved fwd or back then id end up in front or behind the bar. There is heaps of room between the bar and the roof but its useless to me. As for the max empty weight in the flight manual (gr912) its 302kg but i wouldnt be suprised if mine was over that.
DAVID SEE Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 [ATTACH=full]20980[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]20980[/ATTACH] this is what I have of my she was 544 kg but they have dropped my back too 400 kgHope this helps Hi Doug, was talking to Myles about the different weights, like you 400 and me 450, when mine was re-built it had 'strengtheners or spar braces' added to the spars, it's alloy plate complete with 90* angle top and bottom that runs from the wing root to the strut attach point or just beyond. this allows the increase to 450kg. See you at Old Station. Cheers Davo:wave:
Doug Evans Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 Yes I have found that out as well so I looking into finding out if my has been added , ? Yes we be there weather permitting ,.
ave8rr Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 My GR912 is S/no 140 built in 2000. Placarded as follows :Max empty weight:......302 kg. Max takeoff Weight:....480 Kg. Max Landing Weight:..480 Kg. Disposable payload....... 178 Kg. However, I recently purchased a Flight manual from Howie for 'quote': Australian Lightwing GR and GA 912-S-LSA...Including aircraft built from 1986 to 2011...'end Quote. wherein it shows:.... Max empty weight:.......350 Kg. Max takeoff Weight:.....600 Kg. Max landing Weight:....600 Kg. Disposable payload:.......250 Kg. My aircraft was listed on the Raaus rego sheet as a GR-582, but I had that changed a couple of years ago to GR 912, which it is, and always has been. It came out of the factory new with a 912, and never has had a 582 in it. Are the Flight manual figures correct for my aircraft ??...and is it placarded incorrectly for a 582.....enquiring minds need to know ??.!!....And which takes precedence..the affixed aircraft placard, or the Official factory Flight manual.?..................................................Maj... Ross, have these figs for GR/GA-912 been confirmed by Howie? Would a 25 reg aircraft have to be re registered 19 to be able to operate at the higher RAAus weight of 600kgs IF Howie has tested to this higher weight. Is it correct that 25 prefix was amateur built and 55 was factory built? Cheers Mike
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Negative........ 25 was factory built certified trainer........the weights I posted are from the factory placard attached to the aircraft.....Maj...
ave8rr Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Sorry Negative........ 25 was factory built certified trainer........the weights I posted are from the factory placard attached to the aircraft.....Maj... Sorry Ross, I was referring to the weights you posted that were from the manual you purchased from Howie as in your post 18 above. They say 600kg. I also know a number of currently 25 registered GA-912 that were kit built but have a 25 Rego. One is up your way 25-0439. Cheers Mike
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Oh ok...good question...not sure which is the most authoritative there...should be interesting if I ever get ramp checked. CASA may make me amend my aircraft placard to match the manual ?? !..............Maj....
Bob Llewellyn Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Oh ok...good question...not sure which is the most authoritative there...should be interesting if I ever get ramp checked. CASA may make me amend my aircraft placard to match the manual ?? !..............Maj.... It'll be "in the interests of safety"... 1
Bob Llewellyn Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Sigh. From the Design Standards - and a little inside knowledge - a certain amount can be deduced: ANO 95:25, the original for two-seat trainers, limited them to 40 kts stall and 1,000lb (454kg) MTOW. The Lightwing was designed sensibly, so needed a light engine to meet this ill-conceived design pseudo-standard. Then the Calair Skyfox couldn't meet the stall speed of CAO 95:55, so a fudge was added. CAO 101.55 subsequently allowed 1,200lb (540 kg) MTOW (and an almost sane stall speed of 45kts), so it seems the Lightwing was pushed out to its then structural limit at 480kg*. Subsequently a tiny bit of bent tin (aluminium) was added, and the massive(?) weight of an 80hp 912, and the structure and performance then met the design standard at 540kg. The foward fuse & engine mount structure analyses were checked, and a 99hp 912 was stuck in at least one under an EO. Now LSA allows 600kg (and a piffling 300 fpm MROC), so AL know which airframes can safely go up to 600kg MTOW (probably with no other limits changed). The NEW LSA GR-912 is, like a Cherokee Arrow to a Cherokee 140, an evolutionary step. * This weight may have come from applying the Skyfox fudge to the Lightwing under 95:55.
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Either way...haven't managed to overload it yet.....and it still gets off in 200 mts with full fuel and a prop pitched for cruise .....thank you Howie.....Maj......
Bob Llewellyn Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Either way...haven't managed to overload it yet.....and it still gets off in 200 mts with full fuel and a prop pitched for cruise .....thank you Howie.....Maj...... Look you, reality has nothing to do with aviation - if CASA tell you it's unsafe, then it must be... The FAA declared their technical incompetence about a decade ago, and it was a CASA bloke who showed me the FAA video, and explained that CASA was following suit. The difference is, Keating made CASA a litlgation target, and they've been in arse-covering mode ever since. 1
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