Flight Training now @ Gladstone

[winsor68]

It is that attitude that has allowed the overinflation of prices and the almost destruction of many areas of Qld MM... I certainly do understand the "why not milk it" mentality but I certainly don't subscribe to it or agree with it... Sadly it is people just going along with this sort of thing that has caused so much of the problem... I may be an idealist... Heck I know I am... It is just a shame there is not more of us rather than a whole heap of people who are all too ready to stick the boot in for their own benefit.

 

 

[Teckair]

So much for affordable flying.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

I am wondering if RA-Aus on their website could in their list of schools http://www.raa.asn.au/school-states/schools-qld/ list current prices for dual and and solo and maybe against the aircraft they use for training.I would be a great help to new students who are looking for a school in a particular area to see what the approximate charges are and then go out to the school with this information already in hand.

Just saves a lot of driving around if you have some prior knowleadge on what schools charge, one other major thing it may do, seeing everyone can see there charges on the RA-Aus website is encourage the schools through competition to keep their fee's at the lowest possible charge.

 

So what does everyone think, would this help? If so we could approach our local members to see if it can be done...I really thing some of the schools fee's are getting out of control...

 

David

Would also be helpfull to list their type of aircraft in use for training.

 

 

[Yenn]

It is just typical of Gladstone. I have had no dealings with the present operator, but I don't think Gladstone has had a flight school of any type for over ten years. It is surprising that a city the size of Gladstone has so few pilots, especially considering the pay rates there. Go into just about any business in Gladstone and you will be dismayrd by the poor service and high prices.

 

Not having tried the present operator I am in no position to comment on his abilities but he must be better than the one who was at Agnes waters.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

There was one at agnus?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

you thinking about setting up shop there MM? You'll clean up @ $260ph

 

 

[motzartmerv]

No thank. I had a bobcat business there for a while. Went broke because I was young and naive and believed the company's I was working for would one day pay their bills. Was interesting how they could claim bankruptcy and then be back in town 3 weeks later with a new name painted on the same trucks. One of the best and quickest ways to go broke is to go out and work.

 

One of my Instructors has moved to the area and enjoyed having to pay 300 bux to get checked out on a 230 when he already has hundreds of hours In them. To be fair he also said the instructor seemed very pro, very by the book paperwork etc.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Can't imagine you in a Bobcat.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Would have thousands of hours in them.

 

 

[winsor68]

To be fair he also said the instructor seemed very pro, very by the book paperwork etc.

Not having a go at you Motz... But I reckon "by the book" and professional should be the normal accepted minimum standard... rather than expecting to pay a premium for it.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

true Win. Just wanted to balance it a bit. Cory said his paperwork was top shelf..:)...

 

 

[metalman]

I know there are other issues behind the scenes with this but we have two attitudes going here, one, that we should expect and get high quality instruction ,but, not pay much for it.

 

I charge out at $90 per hour in my workshop, most car dealers are higher, any sort of professional will be well over my hourly rate why do we expect a flying instructor to work for less ,because its fun,,,the view is good,,,it is still a business and still has stuff to pay just to keep the doors open , I've been made aware of some of the background here so I'm talking more widely ,we all want the best training we can get ,champagne training shall we call it ,,,,but on lemonade money! I don't know many people who would give their very best ,pay for their own training, and then work for $5-600 a week because we deserve to be able to fly cheaply.

 

I looked at doing a GA instructors rating but being past the point of getting into a poorly paid job fliying charter I thought about instructing, I enjoy teaching ,I love flying and I thought I would do well at it ,,,,,for $35 k a year,,,,it would cost nearly that for the CPL and the FI rating ( along with a NVFR) WTF , I take my hat off to the guys n gals who do it ,with passion ,professionalism and pride,,,,I may still do it but it will be when I don't have to rely on the dosh to feed and house my family ,so please don't be so high n mighty about wanting quality on crap money

 

 

[Stearman]

MM2,

 

This guy is obviously charging premium rates, as high or higher than some GA schools when you take off the lower aircraft operating costs.I have heard he is a GA instructor who can't do GA because he has no AOC.

 

If an accountant can't get work as an accountant so takes a job packing shelves at woolies should he be paid accountant rates?

 

This guy is only training RAAus, students will only get an RAAus certificate so why should they pay GA rates?

 

 

[metalman]

MM2,This guy is obviously charging premium rates, as high or higher than some GA schools when you take off the lower aircraft operating costs.I have heard he is a GA instructor who can't do GA because he has no AOC.

If an accountant can't get work as an accountant so takes a job packing shelves at woolies should he be paid accountant rates?

 

This guy is only training RAAus, students will only get an RAAus certificate so why should they pay GA rates?

Had a nice long answer ,,,can't be bothered really

 

 

[Stearman]

So if an instructor does not charge GA rates he cant be as good as a GA instructor?

 

Plenty of us would know of some great instructors that train to really high standards but they only charge RAAus rates because that is what they train students to achieve, no matter what quality they train to, all they can issue is a RAAus certificate. That is also all this guy can provide but he wants to charge GA rates.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

I charge out at $90 per hour in my workshop

MM2, I think most instructors are not the owners of the school so therefore they don't have to pay to keep the doors open, I would imagine most would be on an hourly rate and they get paid for the hours that they are in the plane training students, so they would not have any overheads from the business as such, that would be the owners cost, all they would do is work on that hourly rate and charge out the owner at the end of the week or month and then pay taxes etc as we all have to do, I would think that if you were on $50 or $60 per hour that would be pretty good money on that basis. If some are getting paid $90 per hour or better on a contract or hourly rate well good on them no wonder some schools are charging $250 + per hour.

Also I would guess it depends on how many bookings each day that the school gets as that relates directly to his income each week and then how many bookings for the week depends on the price per hour the school is charging, what area the school is located, which type of aircaft are offered to students because that is related to the cost to buy the aircraft and maintain it, replacement cost etc and so around it goes....

 

we all want the best training we can get ,champagne training shall we call it ,,,,but on lemonade money!

I don't want champagne training I just want what to be taught to fly a plane safely and correctly, is that champagne training?

David

 

 

[Yenn]

Motza. Agnes had an instructor, name of Rhodes I think and he was a cowboy. I hadn't realised how poor he was until I was talking to one of his old students, last Sunday.

 

I am not sure what rocky club charge for GA training now, but last time I saw their figures it was less than the current gladstone cost.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I would think that if you were on $50 or $60 per hour that would be pretty good money on that basis.

To achieve the average Australian income, a flying instructor on $50 p/h would have to fly nearly 5 hours/day (which means working for 10 hours), 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year with no holidays and no flights lost due to sickness, weather, unserviceable aircraft or student no-shows/cancellations !

 

Quite apart from the likelihood of such a scenario, do you think such an instructor would be physically and mentally able to provide each student with the quality of instruction they deserve & expect ?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[biggles5128]

It has been the case for as long as I can remember, the majority of flying instructors are there to build hours to get an airline job. There has always been very few career instructors and hence the experience that those people bring to the industry. Having battled on an instructors wage in the past I know the the arguments on both sides of the fence. I do believe that as an RAA instructor, you have pretty much reached the ceiling, so in saying that I think we will all benefit from a lot more "career instructors" as they won't all be heading for the airlines, this will keep a wealth of experience in the ranks.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

a flying instructor on $50 p/h would have to fly nearly 5 hours/day (which means working for 10 hours),

Not sure what you mean by 10 hrs Crezzi? I can only think you are including the briefings yes?

 

David

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I think he means being there for 10 hours. Which isn't far off the mark.

 

 

[DWF]

An instructor on casual rates is usually only paid for the hours the aircraft meter is running.

 

Any instructor doing the job properly will usually work at least an additional hour for each flying hour doing briefing, debriefing, pre-flight inspection, writing up log books and student records, washing the aircraft, refueling, etc, etc.

 

In some schools junior instructors are even allowed to TIFs for free! [Don't get me started here - I don't think junior instructors should do TIFs at all!]

 

Some days you are there all day but not flying due weather, un-serviceability, no student, etc - for no pay at all!

 

I may be biased but I think a good instructor is worth every penny (wot's that) they get.

 

DWF

 

 

[DGL Fox]

An instructor on casual rates is usually only paid for the hours the aircraft meter is running.Any instructor doing the job properly will usually work at least an additional hour for each flying hour doing briefing, debriefing, pre-flight inspection, writing up log books and student records, washing the aircraft, refueling, etc, etc.

Well why do you work for nothing?? I thought you instructors were smart guys, I am in the contruction industry and there is no one I know that would work for 1 hour and then 1 hour for free.

 

When you are employed by a flying school surely you would negotiate the rate you want and what you are expected to do?

 

So if you guys work extra hours for 0 money who's fault is that, don't complain or say you don't get paid for this and that or paid enough, at some of the high hourly rates that I have seen quoted someone is making the money, so if it's not the instructors who is it??

 

I am sure we are all smart enough and have the rights not to work for someone if you don't like the pay and conditions, and if that really is what you have to do and are being paid that amount to do it...I would say why are you..I could not afford to do all of those hours for such small money, maybe that's why we hear of bad instructors, maybe they have just had enough but have to put up with it because they have no where else to go.

 

Everyone needs a fair days pay for a fair days work...isn't that what Australia was built on...???

 

David

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Secret to happiness: find the thing you love and do it on weekends and evenings.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Everyone needs a fair days pay for a fair days work...isn't that what Australia was built on...???

Yes that's right and no child lives in poverty! It's the people earning less that makes you feel like you are earning more. If everyone else earned ten times as much, you would feel hard done by, I guess that is how instrucors are feeling.