Aircraft noise certification

[slb]

Lets hope they never have to use an Angel Flight unless its a quiet one

 

 

[Yenn]

I had to apply to Airservices for a noise assesment. Filled in the form, is it fitted with mufflers? No. What is it O-320 Lycoming with 4 straight exhaust stacks. Had the permission to operate under Reg 9A(2) in a few days and it is by no means quiet.

 

The only way I could see a local council getting at you is if they run the strip and can make life difficult that way.

 

It is the squeaking hinge that gets the oil, and there are a lot ofpeople out there that hate anyone having something they don't have. See if you can get some leverage with the lama farmer. If it had been ostriches I would understand, they tend to run into fences and demolish themselves if a plane flies over them.

 

 

[Guernsey]

. If it had been ostriches I would understand, they tend to run into fences and demolish themselves if a plane flies over them.

We had exactly that problem with a good neighbour at Truro Flats Airpark who had ostriches, we now fly well clear of his property, problem solved.

 

Alan.

 

PS I also didn't want to stop my supply of ostrich eggs.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

This Llama farmer wants our land he tried to buy it off the owners 20 odd years ago but it had to be offered to us first at a reduced value. After he put in a bid for it the owners offered it to us as per the original lease agreement. if we knocked it back then he could buy it at full market value. So we went into debt and bought it. The Llama farmer was not aware that we had first dibs on it at a great rate. So that made his day. At the time he was a jorno for Newcastle Hearld and wrote some nasty little article about it. We wrote a letter to the editor and said it seemed a conflict of interest and the editor sacked him and it has been on ever since.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Oh dam. A scorned ex journo llama farmer... You guys mise well give up now ozzie.:(

 

 

[metalman]

As with most of these things it's often some other motive, aircraft aren't really that noisy once they're though 7-800 ft ,an aircraft in the circuit wouldn't rate a second look in my opinion noise wise.

 

We have a house near our field that we keep clear of, it happens to be about the spot where the FI pulls the power for engine failure simulations, old girl was convince that every second aircraft was going to crash into her house!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

We can only do 20 loads a day and have to have one weekend off a month. We aren't limited to just weekend jumping we can jump week days and do jump mid week very occasionally. But the real problem is that drop kick will lodge a trivial complaint and the council will try and stop whatever we are doing until we respond and sort it out. We are limited to the number of people staying overnight and have to keep a register of those staying and what accommodation they use, tent, van etc. We can't use our house as accommodation. We can't do any repairs or improvements without DA. All vehicles such as a caravan or pick up vehicle that is left on the DZ must be registered. And it goes on and on. But it does not say anything about other aircraft using the strip during the week or our off weekend. So what i am going to do is increase aircraft activity during these periods. We have a few locals come in and do a touch and go or two during the week. The Gazelle from Cessnock occasionally and the gyro from Wallsend and the odd tiger from Luskintyre. So if you are nearby during the week you are welcome to do a few touch and goes or drop in for a coffee. Maybe pilots from the nearby strips would like to drop in on the off weekend Sunday for a BBQ lunch. Be nice to see 20 or so aircraft using the place.

 

 

[facthunter]

His complaints can be connected to his frustration in not getting the property. You must have some legal redress on that basis. it's not enough to a subject you to restrictions and expense based on allegations from an interested party surely? Can't you suggest his action have an aspect of vindictiveness. Likewise If he has slandered you in communications with the council, you should be able to view all corrrespondence relating to the matter, specially if there are legal procedings in place. Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

He is very carefully about how he words his complaints. We have used a caravan before sound tested etc. Just two serial numbers apart. Just a different colour. If he lodged a noise complaint targeting a C208 the council would have or should have picked up on it and knocked the complaint back. Instead he called it a big noisy blue plane. That got the action started and now council will have to follow thru with it sighting now that all individual aircraft have to be tested. Otherwise if they withdrew the request we would have legal recourse to recover any lost revenue or costs. There is also a connection between him and the person acting on his complaints in council (allegedly). We have seeked advice on having him classed as a vexatious complainant but that is very hard to prove and could leave us open for action if we lost. We now look like going after the actual DA and changing that.

 

Edit: the thing that really worries me is that our committee says it is all under control.

 

 

[Bandit12]

Edit: the thing that really worries me is that our committee says it is all under control.

Now that sounds awfully familiar.....

 

 

[turboplanner]

You have good cause to worry unless the committee contains a couple of planning specialists - a DA may be won or lost, can go against you as often as for you, but the cruncher is that when the inevitable dissatisfaction with the Council decision occurs, it gets bumped off to the Tribunal where you can get wiped out for all the wrong reasons. I'd think this one might meet vexation requirements.

 

 

[facthunter]

If he wants to buy it, that should be enough. Putting you out of business helps him .NO? Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

If he wants to buy it, that should be enough. Putting you out of business helps him .NO? Nev

If the club goes under then the land is sold and the money goes to the Australia parachute federation.the property cannot be used as a airstrip again. If that happened we would sell on a closed market. He would not have a chance to buy. If we ended up being shut down but the club still exists we would either keep it or develope it our selves. He is getting on and is not in good health we just have to hang in there

 

 

[old man emu]

. He is getting on and is not in good health we just have to hang in there

Time wounds all heels!

 

OME

 

 

[facthunter]

OME, you've pinched my saying. I hope it's true. nev

 

 

[planedriver]

. He is getting on and is not in good health we just have to hang in there

Or treat him to a pro-bono tandem/solo jump expreience of a lifetime:drool:

 

 

[boingk]

Personally I'd just send him a letter and politely request to discuss the matter privately.

 

If he refuses then tell him copy of all correspondance will be filed for future reference and that, having negated mediation levvied by yourself, he now leaves legal action as the only option. He may or may not be aware of 1) the cost of legal intervention and 2) that he has to provide and/or pay for evidence citing that the noise is exceeding a recognized standard. Furthermore, your aircraft conforms to all current regulations and that he can go f*** himself.

 

My attitude tends to be exactly that; polite and cooperative until it becomes clear you just want to cause trouble and not actually solve anything... at which point I can become a really intimidating assh0le to deal with, legally speaking. It may or may not help that I'm also a 6'2"/90kg motorcycle riding assh0le.

 

- boingk

 

 

[turboplanner]

If you search the Jaspers Brush thread, I posted the Australian Design Rule drove-by noise limits.

 

These are the noise limits permissible at the side of an Australian road.

 

There are no exceptions to these in any Planning Zone.

 

So, for example, if this guy lives on a road, and the aircraft test noises are less than the maximum ADR noise, (where the Council has no right to impose any noise condition on any motor vehicle) it would be inappropriate, and possibly illegal, for any Council to impose any condition on a Use where it could be shown that the operating noise level was below the ADR level at the side of his road outside his house.

 

Also I would question the frequency limits the Council ha placed, as possibly contravening the Trade Practices Act. Normally, where a person's amenity (living comfort) may be affected by say, an Industrial operation next door or trucks on the road, frequency limits or prohibition are applied before 7 am approx. and after 7 pm approx.

 

The airfield is in need of a professional Planning Consultant.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Ozzie,

 

Read what Tubz has said and talk to him. He will be a wealth of assistance in this regard, then get the committee to engage him. Well worth it in my opinion. Tubz would be my goto guy in your circumstances.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

We are currrently working on challenging the council and the DA. Going to be a long process. Getting the council to play fair until then will be a challenge. I see this noise checks etc as giving them a bit more rope to hang themselves. We have a history of committees that tend to jump when told. So they are hesitant to refuse councils requests. This one is at last seeking top solicitors from outside the area.

 

I can only suggest to the committee what actions they should take and why it should be done a certain way. There is a popularity culture to deal with as well.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Steve,

 

Getting legal advice can be a completely separate matter to getting proper experienced planning advice. Both have their place.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Just had our first visitor quite by coincidence and not by the request i posted here. Andrew from Maitland shot a few circuits in his trike then landed. One of the newer locals came over and it turns out they know each other hence the visit. Had a good talk to both. So we can expect more trikes from Maitland and the neighbor and his young son love to watch the skydivers on the weekend. So another local on our side. Hopefully he will take up the offer of a free tandem jump that Bowie has offered to all the locals.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Agree there Dave but getting the committee to accept that is the problem.

 

Luskintyre Saturday?

 

 

[David Isaac]

.... Luskintyre Saturday?

Not this one, but soon as I am putting a plan together with the LAME for the annual on the Auster, so I will be bringing the caravan up and staying there over a few days to get the old girl in the air ... yee haa. So how about when I do, we catch up and spend some time together finally.