Helicopter Crash Wollongong

[Head in the clouds]

ABC News 24 reporting this afternoon that CASA have made the fuel tank modifications madatory before the end of April. Saying 100 out of a fleet of 400 aircraft had not yet had the modifications.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-05/unsafe-robinson-helicopters-to-be-grounded/4611458?section=nsw

And CASA's hand may have been partially or wholly forced by strong opinion voiced on this forum, I applaud you gentlemen.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

More people die in Fords than Robbies why don't we have them all taken off the road too?

 

Because buddy, when a ford rear ends a Holden in a 40 zone, nobody gets incinerated. .

Very bad analogy ..

 

http://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Fuel_tank_defect

 

 

[rankamateur]

Take a Bex and have a look at this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Mizar

 

 

[rankamateur]

Take a Bex and have a look at this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Mizar

Just had a look at the post on Solomon in the states and the user Brian Clayton by coincidence has this very contraption for his avatar.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes I got a call from the mercury today. Wanting a follow up and my opinion on casa's decision to make it mandatory, it was news to me but was good news all the same. I laid the boot in pretty heavily in a recent article and I'm glad all our noise may have caused casa to actually do something about safety for once..

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Yes I got a call from the mercury today. Wanting a follow up and my opinion on casa's decision to make it mandatory, it was news to me but was good news all the same. I laid the boot in pretty heavily in a recent article and I'm glad all our noise may have caused casa to actually do something about safety for once..

Got my support. This is fuel tank matter seems to be a standout frequent contributing factor that can be addressed by the regulator to reduce the fire risk and the unfortunate results.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Really the person(s) responsible at CASA should loose their job, everything about this appears to be negligence. It might even cost us, the taxpayers, a lot of money if they are sued by the incinerated folks families. Not much point even having the organisation if they ignore serious issues whilst busy chasing trivial non-safety related paperwork.

 

I think I'll write to the opposition and request a complete overhaul of CASA when they get in, I suspect most in the aviation industry outside the Qantas inner circle of buddies would like to see this.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Bloody oath!!!!

 

 

[Mriya]

Finally a good outcome given the circumstances. I just had a read of the Airworthiness Bulletin and CASA Instrument. I applaud the action taken, but note the 'convoluted' mechanism which they have used to enforce the mod. My guess is that as they aren't the Airworthiness Authority that approved the original Type Certificate, they don't want to issue an AD. Going back a number of years, CASA use to issue AD's themselves (often copies of the AD issued by the Airworthiness Authority in the country of manufacture), however these days they simply say that if the Airworthiness Authority in the country of manufacture issues an AD, then it applies here also. So in this case, one more question I have is whether the FAA will issue anything to compel R44 operators to comply with the SB.

 

Anyway, credit where it is due, and I am very glad to see that CASA have now acted. Unfortunately, in this case it seems that it took a rising body count to get their attention.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Finally a good outcome given the circumstances. I just had a read of the Airworthiness Bulletin and CASA Instrument. I applaud the action taken, but note the 'convoluted' mechanism which they have used to enforce the mod. My guess is that as they aren't the Airworthiness Authority that approved the original Type Certificate, they don't want to issue an AD. Going back a number of years, CASA use to issue AD's themselves (often copies of the AD issued by the Airworthiness Authority in the country of manufacture), however these days they simply say that if the Airworthiness Authority in the country of manufacture issues an AD, then it applies here also. So in this case, one more question I have is whether the FAA will issue anything to compel R44 operators to comply with the SB.Anyway, credit where it is due, and I am very glad to see that CASA have now acted. Unfortunately, in this case it seems that it took a rising body count to get their attention.

This could be a good thing, otherwise the imported s-LSA would be even more likely to be a paperweight, this is one of the efficiencies in living in a globalised world. Not much else going for it, better take what we can get.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I know of maybe four incidents here in Oz related to fuel tank related post-impact fires, how many more have there been throughtout the world, since the R44 was put into service ???...and how many unnecessary resulting deaths..Robinson probabily won't want to issue an AD as an admission of guilt, just like Beechcraft refused to admit to a problem with the Bonanza V-tail, after many, many had departed in flight, with dozens of resulting deaths.

 

It took the private 'Bonanza Club' to actually come up with a tail mod, that eventually solved the problem, with Beechcraft still refusing to acknowledge that there ever was a problem. Iwas told by one knowledgable owner never to hop in a V-tail unless the mod had been incorporated !....

 

We have done well here, if indeed our vocal imput has influenced CASA to finally act on what is a very obvious, and demonstrated safety issue, and we should rightly be proud of our forum imput.

 

In the States that type of thinking by authorities would be called 'Tombstone mentality'...........................Maj...

 

 

[JG3]

I know of maybe four incidents here in Oz related to fuel tank related post-impact fires, how many more have there been throughtout the world, since the R44 was put into service ???...and how many unnecessary resulting deaths..Robinson probabily won't want to issue an AD as an admission of guilt

When we stopped in Cootamundra day before yesterday, a mechanic was calibrating a bladder tank that he had just installed in an R44. He said that he had several more booked in to be done as well.......

 

JG

 

 

[Mriya]

This could be a good thing, otherwise the imported s-LSA would be even more likely to be a paperweight, this is one of the efficiencies in living in a globalised world. Not much else going for it, better take what we can get.

One big difference between LSA's and aircraft that are issued with a regular Type Certificate is that due to the factory certification process the Airworthiness Authorities do not issue AD's for LSA aircraft anyway. The ongoing airworthiness is the responsibility of the factory, with any mandatory instructions issued by them being gospel.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

how many more have there been throughtout the world, since the R44 was put into service ???..

This thread is a virtual carbon copy of a discussion we had on a US site about exactly the same subject. Surprisingly the Americans, although being very unhappy about the situation didn't have the same degree of anger or determination to do something about it, as we saw here. The general view over there is that sooner or later Robinson are gonna have to pay through litigation but in the meantime their products are losing market share and reputation - a self-levelling playing field if you like. Over there their population is so large that perhaps things work quite differently from a smaller nation where losses are felt at a more personal level.

 

 

[rankamateur]

One big difference between LSA's and aircraft that are issued with a regular Type Certificate is that due to the factory certification process the Airworthiness Authorities do not issue AD's for LSA aircraft anyway. The ongoing airworthiness is the responsibility of the factory, with any mandatory instructions issued by them being gospel.

I was really only looking at the benefits of ICAO global influence, and it's ability to alleviate duplication in the different signatory countries. Not so cosy for Columbian LSA manufacturers. I do wonder how hard it would be for Columbia, having some of the best aircraft designers in the world, to become a signatory?

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

I do wonder how hard it would be for Columbia, having some of the best aircraft designers in the world, to become a signatory?

Lance Neibauer ... there are others?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Head, ur probably right. The yanks seem to have a very patriotic sort of mentality about the country as a whole but a lesser value in the individual perhaps? Probably a blanket statement but just a personal observation. Me and my staff were effected pretty badly by what happened here at jaspers so we are always going to be a little more emotionally attached to the situation. Made worse by some of the attitudes we ran into of some operators of r44's. one guy said that the fuel tank mod was a waste if time, ya just need to keep them upright ;) . So it was hard to watch an r44 hover down the taxiway at Wollongong full of bright eyed kids blissfully unaware of the danger they were in. I'm sure If u showed the parents the video of the crash they would be sickened with the knowledge they had put their kids in the thing.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Lance Neibauer ... there are others?

What about Max Tadesco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Aircraft_Company and http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/origin-of-701-and-savannah-designs.25570/.

 

 

[rankamateur]

So it was hard to watch an r44 hover down the taxiway at Wollongong full of bright eyed kids blissfully unaware of the danger they were in. I'm sure If u showed the parents the video of the crash they would be sickened with the knowledge they had put their kids in the thing.

It is the same feeling parents get when the rescue helicopter is looking for remains after a boating accident or the ambulance is on the paddock after a pony club accident, parenting is easier when they are blissfully unaware. Motz you were doing them a favour doing their worrying for them, and half of them would probrably have burred up at you if you had tried to enlighten them.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

What about Max Tadesco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Aircraft_Company and http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/origin-of-701-and-savannah-designs.25570/.

Well, sure he's a designer, and he's Columbian but "one of the best aircraft designers in the world" - I suppose so

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Head, ur probably right. The yanks seem to have a very patriotic sort of mentality about the country as a whole but a lesser value in the individual perhaps? Probably a blanket statement but just a personal observation. Me and my staff were effected pretty badly by what happened here at jaspers so we are always going to be a little more emotionally attached to the situation. Made worse by some of the attitudes we ran into of some operators of r44's. one guy said that the fuel tank mod was a waste if time, ya just need to keep them upright ;) . So it was hard to watch an r44 hover down the taxiway at Wollongong full of bright eyed kids blissfully unaware of the danger they were in. I'm sure If u showed the parents the video of the crash they would be sickened with the knowledge they had put their kids in the thing.

Yes, I quite see your point motz. I'm glad you spoke up the way you did, you've probably saved some lives mate.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Well, sure he's a designer, and he's Columbian but "one of the best aircraft designers in the world" - I suppose so [ATTACH=full]21498[/ATTACH]

He has about twelve rcognised designs to his credit, and has been ripped off by just about everyone he has built planes with including CH(701).

 

 

[Mriya]

CASA have finally issued what was really needed to solve the R44 fuel tank issue fully. CASA Airworthiness Directive AD/R44/23 was issued today, which closes the loophole where SB's are not necessarily mandatory. Without trying to be disrespectful to those who have died in R44 accidents in Oz, I guess we now know roughly what the death count needs to be before CASA acts. On the other hand, I am guessing that CASA was waiting to see whether the FAA would act, as the regulator in the country of origin.

 

AD/R44/23 states that the relevent fuel tank mod SB must be complied with by 30th April 2013. I am guessing a few R44's will be grounded from tomorrow. I'd love to know what feedback and discussions occured between R44 owners and CASA over the last month since they issued the earlier Airworthiness Notice. In that one they asked owners to state what maintenance schedule they had in place and also stated that non-incorporation of the SB would be deemed inadequate, however without today's AD, owners could have argued with CASA regarding the need to apply the SB.

 

I suspect some owners responded to CASA stating that their maintenance schedule met all legal requirements without the SB, which was correct without the legal backing of an AD. Anyway, at least now the public will be protected from operators who were choosing to save money by not incorporating this safety mod.

 

 

[sfGnome]

The pilot's family have taken some small comfort from the fact that CASA has now acted. Too late for them, but hopefully soon enough for someone else's spouse & children.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Its great news. Im sure there will be some quiet R44's for a while pending the mod, but unfortunately thats the price of safety sometimes. perhaps this case may the instigator in CASA changing policy on how they handle sb's and Ad's in the future. This business of sitting on their hands and waiting for someone else to bring out the AD's has to go, and unfortunately it looks like it may have cost lives. But I spose thats how the safety protocol works, they cant just act straight away, they need more evidence (deaths) before they will do something that will cost the operators money. Its an unfortunate consequence of the capitalist society we live in.