Emerald Qld - Virgin does go-around to avoid light plane

[facthunter]

Thanx Turbz That makes sense. Nev

 

 

[Bandit12]

..... the lifesaving benefit of keeping radio traffic free for that quick "Bandit at 12" which could save their lives.....

You are doing wonders for my self-esteem Turbs

 

 

[eightyknots]

A Go Around is not anything but a minor abnormal action.

That's true in normal circumstances Nev. What gave rise to this article is the fact that the pilot took the plane in a vertical direction ...not really a minor abnormal action.

 

one passenger told the Central Queensland News.

 

"All of a sudden he was bringing the nose up vertical and he had to really fly the plane.

 

I wonder if, in the passenger's words the pilot had to "really fly the plane", what was the pilot doing before this?

 

 

[johnm]

.................... blurted philisophical statement arriving soon:

 

'is it not that all the generations gone by, think that the generations after, can't cut the mustard'

 

..................... its a human trait - you see it everywhere (a fair bit when you are a younger and a fair bit when you get older - its just that sometimes you go from being the criticised to being the critic)

 

- don't get me wrong - the wise are allowed to criticise

 

 

[facthunter]

The reportage was a bit off. I can understand the "really fly the plane" as most manoeuvering is done to keep smooth. I suppose the most violent thing is the rotation to about 18 degrees on take off. The go round wouldn't normally exceed the take off rotation angle either . Most passengers are not ready for a go round when they expect to land so it gets their attention. IF he/she really did put it in a vertical direction we would certainly be reading about it..

 

Re the generational thing.... There can be differences without them being necessarily BAD but self discipline doesn't seem to be an area that some are strong in. This could be a product of trying to foster independent action and thinking. People are brought up a lot differently these days If they ended up with the same values as older generations it would be remarkable because it is unlikely, when they are exposed to different values.. Nev

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

The reportage was a bit off. I can understand the "really fly the plane" as most manoeuvering is done to keep smooth. I suppose the most violent thing is the rotation to about 18 degrees on take off. The go round wouldn't normally exceed the take off rotation angle either . Most passengers are not ready for a go round when they expect to land so it gets their attention. IF he/she really did put it in a vertical direction we would certainly be reading about it..

What if it was a TCAS RA (resolution advisory)?

[facthunter]

Would that apply in a visual situation, in the circuit? Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

One of the reasons I like CTR. All these issues are irrelevant. The problem is it excludes most of us. Once I was lined up ready on a parallel runway where parallel ops were not approved & a 737 was lining up. ATC gave him the option & he advised "I will be No 2". I was stoked. I called & said "Thank You Sir" & took off. C172 ahead of B737. Loved it.

 

 

[robinsm]

I have come across rpt's at a number of airports, mudgee, Broken Hill, Bathurst, Armidale and Flying doctors at Ivanhoe and B/Hill and I have to say that I have never had a problem with them. Communication has always been good and polite. I normally circuit and let them land first unless I have plenty of time to get in before them. Common sense applies.

 

 

[boingk]

Common practise here at Goulburn, we often have large/fast traffic coming in for maintenance at Corporate Air. I was an exterior preventative maintenance technician (ie used polish and rags) with them for a while and got to work on some nice aircraft indeed. Nothing beats a hand-polished bright white aeroplane.

 

Anywho, back to the point... a few months ago I was in the circuit doing a brush-up on landings and takeoffs in the good old Minicab. A call comes in that XYZ was 50nm out and due in circuit UTC 12. I knew that was only a few minutes away... what the hell? Anyway a few minutes later he calls again and says he's at 15nm... and moving at 200kt plus (!) circuit traffic please be aware. He comes in, downwind was clear (I radioed on crosswind and advised as such, also that I would extend climbout) and he orbited at the end of downwind to allow the other fellows to get down or otherwise out of the way.

 

I'll never forget this massive, magnificent aeroplane simply blasting into the circuit at 1000ft. It really was unreal and a credit to the guys that flew it. I saw them afterwards on shutdown but never got a chance to have a chat.

 

Anywho, be aware and be at your best.

 

Safe flying all - boingk

 

 

[Bernie]

My first solo in a Gazelle was at Hervey Bay in 2000, I had a Shorts 360 ( the RPT then) wait at the gate while I landed.

 

He congratulated me on my landing....I was stoked . A good landing and a pro telling me so.

 

Bernie.

 

 

[sain]

I can understand the RPT pilots stooging around while they got a handle on how fast another aircraft was going around the circuit, especially if they were unfamiliar with the type.

 

Just think how much it'd suck to be climbing out in something slow on a hot summer day and hearing the RPT behind you that was on late finals give a going round call.

 

My own dealings with RPT and pilots operating under IFR has been limited, but I have found them polite, helpful and considerate of more inexperienced pilots.

 

 

[bilby54]

I can understand the RPT pilots stooging around while they got a handle on how fast another aircraft was going around the circuit, especially if they were unfamiliar with the type.Just think how much it'd suck to be climbing out in something slow on a hot summer day and hearing the RPT behind you that was on late finals give a going round call.

 

My own dealings with RPT and pilots operating under IFR has been limited, but I have found them polite, helpful and considerate of more inexperienced pilots.

Every aircraft going into a CTAF has to give an inbound call at which time aircraft in the circuit or close by will usually acknowledge and advise their intentions. Roma gets an average of 7 Dash-8 aircraft per day and up to 18 mid week plus King Airs and twins so one stooging around assessing traffic is a bit unrealistic.

 

The Tecnam at Roma that is in my school is also transponder mode C equipped so even if they don't see visually they see electronically. My local operating procedures also cover giving way whenever possible to RPT traffic and 99% appreciate it but 1% barge in like it is their divine right and can be quite arrogant in dealing with us (and ground staff).

 

If the heavy does not know that we are in the circuit by the time he gets there then he should not be flying.

 

 

[ben87r]

My own dealings with RPT and pilots operating under IFR has been limited, but I have found them polite, helpful and considerate of more inexperienced pilots.

They wont be IFR in VMC if they are doing i straight in approach.... Or shouldn't anyways

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

They wont be IFR in VMC if they are doing i straight in approach.... Or shouldn't anyways

All RNAV's are straight in approaches, aircraft may be in IMC down to 500 feet!

The bit the scares me is not in the circuit, but popping out of a cloud and into the path of an aircraft slimming along at the bottom!

 

 

[kaz3g]

Hmmmm, sounds like my school Tecnam which is radio and transponder equipped.We always fit in with the Dash-8 traffic and give them priority but I have to say that some of the Q400 drivers get a bit pushy - bigger plane... bigger head I'm sure. I'll ask around and find out if anyone had any problems with them because for my part, they were telling big porkies to the passengers.

Unfortunately, big heads are not the sole province of big RPT drivers.

 

A few weeks ago, I had flown back into my home aerodrome and put the Auster to bed when I realised an air ambulance King Air was waiting outside the club house for a pick up. It was a hot day and I thought I would go over and offer pilot and medic sitting in the aircraft's doorway some hospitality...a cool drink and the chance to use the loo.

 

I approached and said g'day.

 

He said: Do you have an aeroplane here?

 

I said: Yes, an Auster. I just put it away.

 

He said: Do you have an ASIC?

 

I said: Yes, why?

 

He said: you must display an ASIC airside.

 

We had a bit of a discussion about this and I explained there was no RPT traffic, and the aerodrome is registered, not certified, therefore no requirement to have, let alone display, an ASIC. He became very insistent that he was right and I was wrong so I pulled my ASIC out of my handbag and showed it to him.

 

His response: You could have forged it!

 

Now, I confess I was getting a little cross and probably said something rude, but he then came out with the following which just finished me...I had to walk away for fear of saying, or even doing, doing something quite unbecoming.

 

He said: well, it's my company's policy to require an ASIC is displayed by anyone coming near our aircraft. You might be going to throw stones at it!

 

He fired up to go a little later on and being parked parallel with the taxiway, wing hanging 10 feet over the yellow line, instead of at an angle with his tail to the fence, his prop wash started to blow a Tecnam back towards an RV6. The quick intervention of a couple of real aviators saved a major event.

 

................ But wait, there is more....

 

Last Thursday evening, I was at the Aeroclub having a quiet chat and had just taken the top off my first drought challenger when another air ambulance arrived. It also parked with wing over the yellow line into the taxiway.

 

I made a couple of caustic comments about my recent experience to a couple of RFDS guys in the clubhouse and, a little later, in walked the very same pilot extraordinaire. He sat down (uninvited in my club rooms ) and addressed me.

 

He said: That was me the other week you are criticising.

 

Being a lady I said, quick as a flash: Yes, and you were foxing rude, too!

 

He then proceeded to tell us all that we had to display our ASICs above the waist when airside.

 

One of the members said quietly: there is no RPT, you don't need one.

 

He dissented.

 

I then introduced Gawne Aviation's CFI who, in answer to the blonde hero's further questions, explained he had been flying for 40 years, CFI for about 15, is an ATO and spent some time driving those really big ones.

 

I won't bore you with the rest but I was really cross by this time so I did take it upon myself to suggest, amongst a few other things, that his employer, Pel Air, would probably be keen to foster a good reputation because, God knows, it could do with some improvement right now. Oh, I mentioned an AVID, but boy wonder didn't seem to recognise the term.

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

I would LOVE to have been there watching.

 

Those people are all the same Kaz, better to just TASE the bastards!

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Oh dear Kaz, I hope you realise all Air Ambulance pilots are not like that!

 

I think Turbs is right, just 'taze the bastards'!

 

 

[bilby54]

Hmmm... Pel Air.... says it all

 

 

[ben87r]

The bit the scares me is not in the circuit, but popping out of a cloud and into the path of an aircraft slimming along at the bottom

I agree here 100% been on the other side of a close call with that one

 

All RNAV's are straight in approaches, aircraft may be in IMC down to 500 feet!

I did mention VMC as that is what i had thought Sain had been talking about IFR in VMC? May have misread it..

 

 

[sain]

<snip>

He said: Do you have an ASIC?

 

I said: Yes, why?

 

He said: you must display an ASIC airside.

 

We had a bit of a discussion about this and I explained there was no RPT traffic, and the aerodrome is registered, not certified, therefore no requirement to have, let alone display, an ASIC. He became very insistent that he was right and I was wrong so I pulled my ASIC out of my handbag and showed it to him.

 

His response: You could have forged it!

 

<snip>

 

He then proceeded to tell us all that we had to display our ASICs above the waist when airside.

 

<snip>

 

Kaz

Don't you have to be a registered ASIC inspector to inspect ASICs? I've not looked at the relevant regs for a couple of years, but certainly when they first came out you wern't allowed to inspect asic cards unless you fit some stupid requirement.

 

might be worth looking at the regs, and then calling a complaint throught to CASA/Air services and getting his revoked.

 

Good work standing up to him Kaz.

 

 

[dodo]

Don't you have to be a registered ASIC inspector to inspect ASICs? I've not looked at the relevant regs for a couple of years, but certainly when they first came out you wern't allowed to inspect asic cards unless you fit some stupid requirement.might be worth looking at the regs, and then calling a complaint throught to CASA/Air services and getting his revoked.

Good work standing up to him Kaz.

The requester also has to provide you with his/her identification BEFORE they ask for the ASIC card...

 

dodo

 

 

[sain]

amazing how easy it is to get yourself in trouble if your an officious pr*ck

 

 

[eightyknots]

Don't you have to be a registered ASIC inspector to inspect ASICs? I've not looked at the relevant regs for a couple of years, but certainly when they first came out you wern't allowed to inspect asic cards unless you fit some stupid requirement.might be worth looking at the regs, and then calling a complaint throught to CASA/Air services and getting his revoked.

Good work standing up to him Kaz.

To be able to request, I think the requester has to have undertaken a one day course in requesting things properly.

 

 

[dodo]

OK, it looks like only a "security officer" (in the language of the Regulations) can require someone to show their ASIC card. In that case, the security officer must provide their own identification first.

 

Or, to put it simply, you should probably tell Mr RPT to jam his joystick somewhere improbable.

 

dodo

 

Division 6.6 Powers of security officers in relation to ASICs, VICs and TACs

 

6.52 Definition — security officer

 

In this Division:

 

security officer means:

 

(a) a law enforcement officer; or

 

(b) an airport security guard; or

 

© an aviation security inspector.

 

6.53 Directions to show valid ASICs, VICs and TACs

 

(1) In this regulation:

 

exempt person, in relation to a part of the secure area of a security controlled airport, means somebody who, under the Act or these Regulations, is not required to properly display a valid ASIC, valid VIC or valid TAC in that part of that area.

 

(2) Subject to subregulation (2A), if:

 

(a) a security officer knows, or has reason to believe, that a person who is in a part of a security controlled airport is required under these Regulations to properly display a valid ASIC, valid VIC or valid TAC; but

 

(b) the person is apparently not properly displaying a valid ASIC, valid VIC or valid TAC;

 

the security officer may (unless the security officer knows the person to be an exempt person in relation to that part of the airport) direct the person to show him or her a valid ASIC, valid VIC or valid TAC.

 

(2A) At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened air service operates, subregulation (2) applies only during a traffic period for the airport.

 

(3) Before giving a person a direction under subregulation (2), a security officer must show the person:

 

(a) the officer’s identity card; or

 

(b) another appropriate form of identification.

 

(4) A person (other than a person who is an exempt person for the area or part) must comply with a direction of a security officer under subregulation (2).

 

Penalty: 10 penalty units.

 

(5) If an exempt person is given a direction by a security officer under subregulation (2), the exempt person must show the security officer identification that establishes that he or she is an exempt person.

 

Penalty: 10 penalty units.