Green as grass-eying the centre line

[Birdz Dowit]

hello all,

 

I am very new to cockpits. I have only 2.5 TIF hrs to put in my log book when it arrives with my RA-Aus Student Lic. I'm flying off a grass RWY in W/Sydney (Au) 900m x 30m in a Jabiru J120. Although I don't expect to posses any great skill I'd like to be a bit better at keeping centred on the run to lift off. I think I'm ok to half speed and then I can feel the instructor moving us left. He told me I was pretty good at compensating for the engine torque but the paralex error just becomes a problem. He was saying that there should be a sight line on the 'dash' that passes thru a point on the engine cowl for a psudo gun sight. And I'm saying: 'wouldn't the front sight have start a couple a couple of inches in from the edge of the cowl and slide into toward the spinner as we neared the end marker????' And that point he let me off the hook because of a look on my face. I'm sure he's right but I have a block when trying to visualise how it could or should work as I close on the end marker. Can someone point to a graphic reprentation or explain what got through to them?

 

 

[Ultralights]

look as far ahead as possible... if your driving a car at 110Kph, you dont look just in front of the car, you look way up ahead, same goes for take off and landing flare. once you get about 30 kts, look right to the end of the runway and thurther. you will find it a lot easier to keep in the centre.

 

 

[rdarby]

That line runs under your bum and ahead, not towards the spinner. Imagine a line through your legs and straight ahead through some point on the cowling, which is probably right in front of you. It's not through the spinner as that creates an optical illusion of being straight. If you look far enough ahead as Ultralights said, you will find that it is keeping you centred. The easiest way to to line the plane up on a line, or if you are on grass to point it at something that is straight ahead, like the corner of a hangar, then get in and see where you should look.

 

 

[facthunter]

Don't think about lines drawn on the cowl. Maybe thinking of putting your right foot on the centre line will work. It's not critical if you are a couple of feet either way as long as the plane isn't heading bush and you are keeping it straight. Jabs like the weight to be taken off the front wheel with a bit of back stick., then the rudder is helping you and the action is more controllable. Look well ahead to see how well you are 'aiming' it. Nev

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

That line runs under your bum and ahead, not towards the spinner. Imagine a line through your legs and straight ahead through some point on the cowling, which is probably right in front of you. It's not through the spinner as that creates an optical illusion of being straight. If you look far enough ahead as Ultralights said, you will find that it is keeping you centred. The easiest way to to line the plane up on a line, or if you are on grass to point it at something that is straight ahead, like the corner of a hangar, then get in and see where you should look.

ah. . . . no lines under bum on grass. I don't want to be a smart arse straight off but sometimes you have to play the cards you're deal.

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

Maybe I didn't explain right. There's a 500mm wide target infront of the shrubs at each end. I'm guessing that tey're technically the over-shoot(s). I'd watched heaps of Youtube and read a heap of stuff so I've always looked to the distant marker. But the instructer feels my alignment is wrong. I know I can't expect to be proficient too soon but I'll say it like this. If the plane was chocked at the last point of take-off and I (an non-retarded 50 year tradesman of 35 years experience) and my instructor were strapped in our places. He would say probably: 'see, we're about half a plane too far right'. And I what probably say humbly: ' I must be looking off to that marker wrong because I would say we're about 6 inchs too far your way". As a matter of fact, we had a conversation almost exactly like that after I parked the Jab in the Lines and shut down on Sunday.

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

to nev, I think what you said seems to fit. I should just come left a bit and chill. I just thought there might be a quick fix and they won't let me use any of the runways at Kingsford-Smith Airport. I suppose I'll crack it eventually.

 

 

[Ultralights]

i think at only 2.5 hrs, dont worry to much about it, you will get better with experience.

 

 

[dazza 38]

i think at only 2.5 hrs, dont worry to much about it, you will get better with experience.

I would be more worried about explaining WTF does tey're means in his post.

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

I would be more worried about explaining WTF does tey're means in his post.

they're miss-typed. sorry. . . . . All iIn answer to all. Thanks, I will have to chill and just take baby steps.

 

 

[dazza 38]

hello all,I am very new to cockpits. I have only 2.5 TIF hrs to put in my log book when it arrives with my RA-Aus Student Lic. I'm flying off a grass RWY in W/Sydney (Au) 900m x 30m in a Jabiru J120. Although I don't expect to posses any great skill I'd like to be a bit better at keeping centred on the run to lift off. I think I'm ok to half speed and then I can feel the instructor moving us left. He told me I was pretty good at compensating for the engine torque but the paralex error just becomes a problem. He was saying that there should be a sight line on the 'dash' that passes thru a point on the engine cowl for a psudo gun sight. And I'm saying: 'wouldn't the front sight have start a couple a couple of inches in from the edge of the cowl and slide into toward the spinner as we neared the end marker????' And that point he let me off the hook because of a look on my face. I'm sure he's right but I have a block when trying to visualise how it could or should work as I close on the end marker. Can someone point to a graphic repr rentation or explain what got through to them?

Sorry mate, you sound like a troll .Nobody starts a thread saying "I'm new to cockpits" You lost me then and there. Your name Birdz Dowit, sounds like in normal translantion to us normal people as Birds Do it. Anyway your whole post to me is a beat up. Most people looking for answers after a massive 2.5 hours do not post posts like this.We don't have pilot student licences by the way. We have student certificates. Don't get me started on the " non retarded 50 year old tradesmen with 35 years experience." That means your taking the piss out of tradies that left school at grade 10 as 15 years olds. Besides psudo (sic) is actually spelt pseudo . To me your sound like a snot nose spoon fed knob jockey. Just sayin

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Birdz:

 

When you line up on the runway, stop and look at where thr target is in your view relative to the windscreen, panel and cowl. The during your takeoff roll, just do whatever you need to, to. Keep it roughly there. It will never be exact as you'll wander a bit with engine torque, propwash over the tail and gusts of wind. It's a balancing act and an active one at that.

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

Birdz:When you line up on the runway, stop and look at where thr target is in your view relative to the windscreen, panel and cowl. The during your takeoff roll, just do whatever you need to, to. Keep it roughly there. It will never be exact as you'll wander a bit with engine torque, propwash over the tail and gusts of wind. It's a balancing act and an active one at that.

yes, thanks. I'll give that a go.

 

I don't expect to be magic at this from the start. I am trying to let this come together in its own time. It is just unnerving for everything to be happening so fast (at this stage) and not really be sort of following. I suppose its a bit like watching a Movie thriller with the dialogue in another language, you are always behind the plot. I would just be happy to observe intelligently until I have the skills to fully participate.

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

BTW, The name I chose after a few moments of consideration is an echo of a resent conversation. One of the pilots told a hair raising story that took place years ago. I couldn't quite get my head around how someone far more skilled and knowledgeable than I could do such a fool-hardy thing. Many of those present encouraged me in my assessment. The CFI said something like this to give me the missing piece of the puzzle I was working on. He said: “you don't have to be smart to fly a plane. Birds do it and look how tiny their brains are. We'll try to teach you to bet smart all the time.”

 

 

[dazza 38]

BTW, The name I chose after a few moments of consideration is an echo of a resent conversation. One of the pilots told a hair raising story that took place years ago. I couldn't quite get my head around how someone far more skilled and knowledgeable than I could do such a fool-hardy thing. Many of those present encouraged me in my assessment. The CFI said something like this to give me the missing piece of the puzzle I was working on. He said: “you don't have to be smart to fly a plane. Birds do it and look how tiny their brains are. We'll try to teach you to bet smart all the time.”

Most students who have done 2.5 hours, would have completed -Lesson one - Straight & Level flight Lesson 2- Climbing & Decending Then - maybe half way through lesson 3 - Turning. Your initial post to me seems it is written by somebody alot further advanced than 2.5 hours. Hence I really thought that you were trolling. I apologise for that BD.

Sounds like to are doing very well after 2.5 hours in a Jabby J120.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's a reason their brains are tiny. Brains use a lot of energy. By flying, they escaped most of their predators. I can't see how the "wisdom" of your instructor is that usefull to you. You are most likely flying for a different reason, and hopefully your brain is not bird sized.. There are some pilots who aren't very clever but don't ask them, directly. They won't admit it. Nev

 

 

[Bernie]

A strange thing happened to me as a low time trainee.

 

I was doing circuits at Hervey Bay when the instucter told me to fly over to Maryborough and do some touch and go's.

 

The runway had just been resurfaced and no Keys or center line. I found it hard to do a normal landing without visual signs.

 

I think my instructer was on the ball that day and he took me outside my comfort zone.

 

Bernie.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

yes, thanks. I'll give that a go.I don't expect to be magic at this from the start. I am trying to let this come together in its own time. It is just unnerving for everything to be happening so fast (at this stage) and not really be sort of following. I suppose its a bit like watching a Movie thriller with the dialogue in another language, you are always behind the plot. I would just be happy to observe intelligently until I have the skills to fully participate.

Yep, behind the machine. It will be like that for a few hours yet. That's why there's a minimum number of hours required before you can solo. But don't sweat it, it will come. I don't know how old you are so I don't know how long it has been since you learned to drive, but if you can remember back to it, you would have gone through a similar phase with that. Just go with the flow of what the instructor tells you to do, but if he goes into auto-jibber in the plane, you might need to tell him to shut up once in a while so that you can focus on the mechanics of the flying. There IS a LOT of stuff to manage when you're flying and while you're developing the mechanical skill of controlling the aircraft you have to consciously think about that as well. It is normal that your brain is behind the plot at this stage. BTW, Observing is NOT the way to learn to fly.

What I hear, I forget

 

What I see, I remember

 

What I do, I understand.

 

One other thing while I've got my "advice" hat on: When you get to the part where you think "This is not working. I don't get this. I can't learn to fly." We've ALL been there, done that. You CAN and you WILL learn to fly IF you stick with it through that block. You WON'T learn to fly if you give up at that point.

 

HTH

 

 

[Birdz Dowit]

There's a reason their brains are tiny. Brains use a lot of energy. By flying, they escaped most of their predators. I can't see how the "wisdom" of your instructor is that usefull to you. You are most likely flying for a different reason, and hopefully your brain is not bird sized.. There are some pilots who aren't very clever but don't ask them, directly. They won't admit it. Nev

 

I don't think it was intended as sage advice. I think it was just a coy way of telling me a few things: a)You assume all pilots are like all the ones you've met over the years – not all of them are conservative or profession. b) Judging by his actions, the pilot in the story is a half-wit. c)Even though you are my customer and you might spend thousands of dollars in my school, if you turn out to be idiotic or crazy or similar, you will not be endorsed. At least that's how I took it.

 

I think I see your point, Nev, not only will I resist making such judgements on flight crew, I should always remember not to think these things out loud. For now, I am definitely very much unqualified to make any judgements about others.

 

I suppose I've kind of transposed that 'birds do it' conversation into a kind of 'fridge-magnet' stuck somewhere in my mind as a somewhat amusing way to highlight something very serious. Maybe that's why my internal compass hasn't been working properly lately.

 

I hope to be a pilot some day but not to be that pilot.

 

 

[facthunter]

Young students ( or low hour) are likely to take some things instructors say as a throw away line as GOSPELL, and apply it with more emphasis than it merits, sometimes.

 

My main instructor (who I admired greatly) said that planes are delicate and should always be handled with a light touch.

 

I would probably make the same point by saying something like "Are we driving the bulldozer today?" cause I'm always subtle ha Ha.

 

Anyhow I continued to 'pussyfoot" planes around, but later realised that a fair bit of positive persuasion was needed to control things that were not in the light aircraft category, in certain conditions like strong turbulence on approach etc. I had a bit of a "hang -up" for a while, because the "gentle" bit stuck with me, more than it should. Nev.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Think you're right Dazza.

 

At 2.5 hrs you'd be happy just to touch down on the strip. A smart tradie would talk to his insyructor or get another instructor rather than take advice from us space shuttle pilots.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Birds Dowit,

 

Lining up and keeping lined up on takeoff and landing are just the first part of an interesting learning experience that you may not grasp easily, further on in your training your going to come up with a lot more challenges that you may get easy or not to easy.

 

Just take it all as it comes and don't try for perfection off the bat, try to be disclipined in everything you are taught.

 

It will eventually come through all phases of your training.

 

I've got 750+hrs in Trikes and 110 in 3 axis and every flight is still a learning curve of some sort.

 

The day you stop learning is the day you stop breathing.

 

Chill back and take it as it comes as you will master it all at some stage.

 

Alf

 

 

[Phil Perry]

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE . . . . KEEP IT STRAIGHT YOU MORON ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

Well, this is what I said to one of my students some years ago, . . . and NO, I wasn't suffering froma very BAD bedside manner, he was a very close family friend. He had it in his head that the left pedal made the aeroplane ( C-172 ) go to the right, . . .and viccy versa. He didn't explain this until after the lesson.

 

What bamboozled me was that he'd taxied the damn thing out around the taxiways to the runway, and must have applied the correct inputs, ( the bugger told me he'd had a few hours training, he forgot to mention it was with R/C models )

 

Anyway, we sorted the problem in the end, but what a laugh. . . .

 

MORAL OF STORY - - - - NEVER ( REPEAT AS REQUIRED ) NEVER. . . . try to teach family or froiends how to fly. ( note to self also ) Phil