China is coming.

[Gnarly Gnu]

And yet Ultralights are buzzing around the place all the time and they have a park for them nearby

You must live in an interesting part of China. Other Chinese people I know say they don't see any private aircraft and the only ones they are aware of is that of the rich and famous like Jackie Chan. At least Jabiru have local customers to test run their engines for them.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Yes there are about 70 languages and of course Mandarine (taught in all schools) and Cantonese down South are the main 2. Then there's all the small village variations of the 70 odd. It's bizzare watching my wife who is fluent in Mandarine, although she grew up with Sichuan Province language, trying to speak to another Chinese person in a different part of China. She can not understand Cantonese at all but they can understand some of what she says because they all learn it in school and watch it on TV. She can speak about 5 Chinese languages.Kyle, Shanghai language is unique in all of China that it has no crossover with any other, it is unique to itself and no other Chinese person can understand a word of what a Shanhai'ese is saying! - of course they speak fluent Mandarine as well there so no problem.

 

Phil, it's quite hard to start, the 5 tones certainly don't help, and then makes more sense when you can get some sentence structures together. Because of all the slight language variations they need a complete sentence from you to confirm what you are saying rather than simple words we tend to use. Anyone who has been here has noticed how long a conversation takes, mostly they are repeating what the other person has just said and checking that's what they actually said posed as a question and it's this constant confirmation that seems to take forever.

 

But there's more to it than just language, you importantly need to understand behavioural cultures and after 10 years I'm still just scraping the surface and watch amusingly as new Westerners here struggle with that regardless of how well they speak the language. In their arrogance they forget who's sandbox they are playing in so it's much better here to be quiet and look like an idiot rather than opening your mouth and proving you are one.

Bex, I have a question that I would like to ask from someone like yourself, living in China: how do they list people (alphabetically) in, say, the Bejing phone book? Does it go by the number of brushstrokes of the first character of someone's name (as one person suggested to me a few years back)??

 

 

[jcamp]

Bex, I have a question that I would like to ask from someone like yourself, living in China: how do they list people (alphabetically) in, say, the Bejing phone book? Does it go by the number of brushstrokes of the first character of someone's name (as one person suggested to me a few years back)??

Sort of: Each character has a base (the radical 217 of those) so is in order of number of strokes in the radical followed by total number of extra strokes. The first character is the surname and there are only about 100 of those so many pages of Wang. similar for the next two characters of the name then address etc.

 

Dictionaries typically have indexes with radical order, total number of strokes and sound then look up the number.

 

 

[Aldo]

What do you base these comments on? Not that I would have a clue. Have you got your hands on one and stripped it, examined it, tested it etc. By the way, in the 30 years since I started flying, I have nenevr had a Jab engine give trouble (touch wood) but a Lycoming threw a rod on me.

I have had the pleasure/displeasure of having equipment built in China, most of the oil patch went to China in the early 2000's because of the price now most of the majors ask in their RFQ's not to made in China.

I also own a Jabirun(230) and I'm quite happy with the aircraft and engine.

 

I take that offensively so I suggest you go visit a taxidermist

Take it however you like, but I won't be buying an aircraft or engine from China in the near or far future.

 

 

[paulh]

I kind of read that as a suggestion that "good engineering and design work, metallurgy etc" isn't already the standard here, you would be wrong.There's a big difference between what you buy at Supercheap and what Chinese buy at their equivalent Supercheap, Chinese people generally aren't stupid enough or tight ass'ed enough to buy the crap some of you guys are willing to and what's more, you keep buying it over and over and then comment it's a whole countries fault for your own poor decision.

 

I popped into Supercheap and bought a 4" grinder for $19.99 (over 10 years ago) and it lasted 3 hours, just long enough to do what I had to do and was as happy as a pig in poo. No complaints about another country, it was my decision to buy a piece of crap and I got exactly what I paid for.

 

Moral; Stop buying crap, it's that simple. Or if you do, some proper allocation of responsibility please.

 

That's my plan Stan but try one year.

 

Like many others in history, first they'll do the "trust" campaign, then they'll make their own in India (cause that's cheaper than China) and hypocritically stay with the "trust" program.

Now don't get all defensive, I mean if a business person / company sees a potential business opportunity ie in this case wants to make aero engines and they don't yet do so they will need engineering people with suitable skills and experience to avoid spending years and a lot of money learning what is required to design and manufacture a good product, hence the need to hire in expertise. This could of course come from anywhere. Products like Rotax engines have years of experience behind them, loads of cash in R&D to end up with a reliable quality engine.

 

Anyway, would be good to have more serious competition for reliable affordable engines

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I have had the pleasure/displeasure of having equipment built in China, most of the oil patch went to China in the early 2000's because of the price now most of the majors ask in their RFQ's not to made in China.

So the analogy is you went to Supercheap, bought cheap crap and it's somebody else fault.

 

That you're not capable of doing business in another country doesn't make it the countries fault, the arrogance of many Westerners who come here and are "going to show them how it's done" and I have been told those exact words, is wonderfully balanced by how many go home with their tails between their legs.

 

Very pleased to mention the numbers of people I have helped here not get burnt but of course they were first capable of admitting that they just might not be experts in another culture. I have never taken a cent for helping either, oh what a Saint I am

 

Take it however you like, but I won't be buying an aircraft or engine from China in the near or far future.

Oh the irony, you already have

 

Now don't get all defensive,

Not at all

 

 

[bexrbetter]

You must live in an interesting part of China. Other Chinese people I know say they don't see any private aircraft and the only ones they are aware of is that of the rich and famous like Jackie Chan.

You did note I said ultralights? But yes, plenty of them around mostly the parachute trike fan things, some hanglider trike fan things, the odd Drifter style and the odd gyrocopter. 2 or 3 parachute trikes fly back and forth over most weekends over the actual city with advertising slogans. Then there's the Cessna 172's constantly doing their loops from the University but I've already mentioned those, I do have pictures, will upload them one day. There's also a small twin engined thing goes across my house low twice a day and lands at the Uni, obviously a scheduled flight of some sort.

 

There are no light aircraft around, I think that's well established and clear to most in this thread that a main theme is the forthcoming opening up of airspace to light aircraft. A light aircraft to me is Zenith 750, Lightwing Sport 2000, AAK Hornet etc 2 seater sized planes, sorry if my terminology is incorrect.

 

At least Jabiru have local customers to test run their engines for them..

Not the right time or thread to reply to this, give me a couple of weeks, I have a plan ....

 

(Mods, the smileys need a mad scientist!).

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Spending quite some time in Southern China, I see a land of immense opportunity, and people taking advantage of said opportunity. They have an incredible work ethic - they dont care if they work 7 days a week - they care about making money. For example, my Chinese uncle has a 5 story house in a town in southern china. They live on the first floor. The 2nd floor is full of home made alcohol (mixed with snakes, mice, bee's etc. Pretty tasty too.). 3rd floor is full of Birds. 4th Floor is full of Turtles. 5th floor has more birds, some small tree's with a special fruit. And attached to the house is a car detailing business with a dozen workers. He works 7 days a week and doesnt care - he's making money, can send his kids to the best schools etc.On the subject of "cheap" goods we buy here - when you buy the equivalent cheap goods there, they work a hell of a lot better, and last a lot longer, than the cheap crap they push upon us here. That's because we're stupid enough, and tight enough, to want to buy the cheap crap they push on us in the first place! The Chinese business people are smart enough to have found out what we want, and give it to us!.

 

My Accountant for my business is - you guessed it - Chinese. I can call him at 10pm at night with a question and he'll actually answer his phone.

 

We could learn a lot from the Chinese...

Some idiot statistician once told me that. . . .if you marched the entire Chinese population over a cliff ten abreast,. . . . the line would never end. Well, what a stupid twat he was. . . . .( we get them in the UK ) MY ACCOUNTANT IS ALSO CHINESE, although he was born and raised in England ( poor Barstard. . .) he is the best thing since they found out how to slice bread automatically, and the reason I am sitting here in the hangar typing this rubbish, instead of working in a muddy field picking potatoes in the dark. HOWEVER. . . . . If I ring him at ten o clock at night. . . . He'll answer the phone in a fake Chinese accent and say . . .wait for it. . . . . WAT YU WAN ? U NO WOT TIME IT IZ YU BLURRY FOOL . . .

 

Apart from this,. . . he's the dog's danglies at what he does for me, and our local tax office hate his guts. !

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Most of you guys think Jabiru engines are unreliable, wait until you get an engine made in China, you will think Jabiru is the equivilant of a Lycoming. One of the things that I heave learn't about China is that if you want good gear, (and it is available) it will cost you just as much as it costs here, I would be very wary of inexpensive Chinese aircraft engines & parts.

Sorry mate, BUT . . . . .

I'm in the signs and graphics industry, ( part time ) and they make BETTER SIGNS THAN WE CAN, at a price that we can't match even if we tried,. . . . I went to Turkey on Vac recently, and all of the fancy stores had CHINESE made signage. The stuff was brilliant, . . . L.E.D lighting which changed the colours every few seconds, stainless steel fascias with animated illuminated lettering and logos which were BETTER than anything I've ever seen in Las Vegas,. . . . and certainly better than anything I can produce at my place, or anywhre else in the UK,. . . . Yes, you may say. . . it's all down to CHEAP LABOUR, but IS IT ?? where does all the technology come from ? if they can copy anything, . . .then how come thay can not only COPY it, but exceed it so exponentially,. . . . mmmm I think we'd all better learn Mandarin / Cantonese soon, or we're going to be left behind in the commercial world, no matter WHAT we produce, and all end up as sub-contract cheap labour for THEM. Maybe it's THEIR TURN TO RUN THE PLANET ? We've certainly muffed it I think. . . . . .

 

Phil ( Happy Easter by the way. . . )

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Most of you guys think Jabiru engines are unreliable, wait until you get an engine made in China, you will think Jabiru is the equivilant of a Lycoming. One of the things that I heave learn't about China is that if you want good gear, (and it is available) it will cost you just as much as it costs here, I would be very wary of inexpensive Chinese aircraft engines & parts.

One other thing Aldo. . . .

 

If you think that the Chinese are making crap engines,. . . . then they are going to have to go through the same painful process as what we have all been reading over the last couple of years,. . . ie daft engine failures, through bolt fractures,. . . etc. . .etc. . . .you CAN'T just COPY something and hope that yours will be better than theirs. . . maybe they will wake up and smell the coffee and put some more engineering thought and / or redevelopment into what they produce ?? They certainly have the finance, backing and apparent impetus to want to do it. . . . . .

 

The jury is waiting. . . . . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[Admin]

I would be very wary of inexpensive Chinese aircraft engines & parts.

 

I take that offensively so I suggest you go visit a taxidermist.

Now these are the types of statements that we MUST stop here at Recreational Flying!!!!!!!!!!

 

Bex, Aldo said he would be wary of inexpensive Chinese aircraft engines & parts...By your own admission you said:

 

I popped into Supercheap and bought a 4" grinder for $19.99 (over 10 years ago) and it lasted 3 hours

I would also be wary of buying an inexpensive aircraft engine made in China however an engine that is proven to be ok and is somewhat cheaper (not inexpensive), I would consider as cheap labour costs can only reduce the price of an engine by so much before quality then gets sacrificed.

 

and Aldo, give the guy a chance...find out more by asking more questions and give him the benefit of the doubt instead of making a blanket statement that is sure to get up the noses of others

 

The point is guys, there is far too much attacking each other going on in the forums lately and we must try and curb this...often it is because we don't read posts properly or choose to take the negative side rather than the positive one...we are all in this recreational aviation scene together so lets hang together and help each other...that's the only way we can all win...together

 

 

[facthunter]

You mean if we don't hang together, we will all hang separately. Nev

 

 

[eightyknots]

Now these are the types of statements that we MUST stop here at Recreational Flying!!!!!!!!!!...

 

The point is guys, there is far too much attacking each other going on in the forums lately and we must try and curb this...often it is because we don't read posts properly or choose to take the negative side rather than the positive one...we are all in this recreational aviation scene together so lets hang together and help each other...that's the only way we can all win...together

Hear, Hear!

 

 

[Billzilla]

I would also be wary of buying an inexpensive aircraft engine made in China however an engine that is proven to be ok and is somewhat cheaper (not inexpensive), I would consider as cheap labour costs can only reduce the price of an engine by so much before quality then gets sacrificed.

The engine(s) will be 'western' designed and specified, and so equal in quality to any other good western engine.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

...By your own admission you said:I popped into Supercheap and bought a 4" grinder for $19.99 (over 10 years ago) and it lasted 3 hours

Yes I did, but I didn't whine about it later, that's the difference and that was my point. But anyway, you're right, this is one of the best run forums on the net, not just aircraft specific and I admit to a certain carry over from car forums where the ignorance level can be quite extreme along with my retorts so my apologies to the forum and I will attempt to defer from answering in the negative, thanks

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

With respect to members attacking each other, let me tell you something. I got a phone call from some dickhead (I know who he is) who called me all sort of horrid things (some true) because of a comment I made about Jabiru engines and their misuse when I was on this forum as J170 Owner. So, think yourself lucky if you only get flamed on here because it could be a lot worse. I remember a Ham Radio forum where some guy got his radio tower pulled down because somebody didn't like his online comments. Be like testicles, hang out together and share the fun.

 

 

[turboplanner]

You mean if we don't hang together, we will all hang separately. Nev

You looking for someone well hung FH?

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Phil mentioned about signs getting done cheap in China. We get our Business Cards, Stickers etc done there too. The CHEAPEST I can find them for in my local area is $149 for 500 high quality laminated cards. In China, I kid you not, those same 500 Laminated Cards, with no detectable difference in quality, cost me... wait for it.... $5. Yes... FIVE dollars. I know there are online places like VistaPrint here, but i've had their cards too, and found them less than average quality. Go China!! Woo!!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

So, think yourself lucky if you only get flamed on here because it could be a lot worse. I .

Sheez, it's only a computer screen with words on it, it's not life, turn the bloody thing off if it stresses you that much!

 

 

[Sapphire]

I don't know why Jabiru owners are so sensitive to criticism of their a/c. If I owned an aircraft that attracted so much discussion, I would be reading all I can. If you fly with your head in the sand, then your wish may be permanently granted.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

some guy got his radio tower pulled down because somebody didn't like his online comments. Be like testicles, hang out together and share the fun.

GOOD GRIEF .. . nick my wife and my car if you like, . . . but damage my HAM RADIO GEAR ? should be a capital offence. Phil ( G4 OHK )

 

 

[bexrbetter]

3 days ago the Premier of China flew into Chengdu to officially hand over the first ever Chinese LSA certification to the first ever Chinese LSA airplane. No I don't, but I'm looking - is the answer to the obvious.

 

I did find some other info....

 

September 29, following the successful maiden flight in the middle of this month, AVIC Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, produced China's first aircraft the L162 light sport aircraft in Shenyang and started delivers to customers. The aircraft initially priced at about $ 110,000, will mainly be exported to the North American market and is expected to be put into mass production capable of a maximum annual output of 1000 planes.

 

According to reports, L162 aircraft suitable for flight training, private flying and sports, has a length of about 6.95 meters, weighing about 600 kg, mainly aviation aluminum alloy, capacity for 2 people. Cruising altitude of 1800 meters, cruising speed of 207 kilometers and a range of 722 km. Shen Fei Group says the mass production of the aircraft will within two years reach the annual output of 750 with annual sales exceeding $ 82.5 million. The market survey shows a North American market of 1000-1200 being the annual demand of the aircraft and already more than 1,000 customers waiting delivery. (Reporter Sum Yung Guy)

 

Oh and as for Chinese quality, Chengdu makes the complete 787 tail assembly as well as lots of other Boeing stuff, have for years and a couple of British drinking mates make Roll Royce's inconel fuel line parts also in Chengdu. The list in my city is even longer from Cummins and Eaton to also Rolls Royce and Boeing. My city is also one of the world's biggest producers of water and steam turbines and 1 megawatt wind turbines.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I wouldn't have picked the L162 as an icon of the new era.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Cessna aren't selling anywhere near 1000 162s a year...

 

 

[turboplanner]

You missed the BS clause FT - "capable of"