Are there any Electric aircraft flying in Australia ...yet ?

[M61A1]

Sounds like getting power to an electric motor; with weighty batteries made at great cost and with exotic materials.Ba-doom-tish.

 

- boingk

What part of "hydrogen fuel cell" did you miss?

 

 

[boingk]

The part where it took 70% of the Hydrogen's potential just to compress it into a useable format.

 

- boingk

 

 

[bexrbetter]

You've had a better run than me then, my experience would be the opposite, maybe 2 or 3 electrical problems causing stoppage (in 30+ years), one of those (a fuel pump on a bike) also resulting in burnt valves and blown head gaskets. I've had big ends let go, both roller and plain bearings, valve rockers break, valve stems, valve seats, thermostats (mechanical), coolant hoses, coolant pumps (again mechanical), fuel starvation from water or foreign matter, cam chains and cam belts.

Umm, just a thought, get a new mechanic or change up a gear?

 

No British cars or bikes for me, a girlfriend once had one, turned me right off them.

Wow, she must have been ugly!

 

 

[eightyknots]

That's a bit defeatist isn't it Bexrbetter?Just because it's not possible right now does not mean it's not possible very soon. History is full of impossible things becoming possible.

Yes, like powered flight! Many theorist said this would be "impossible", but Wilbur and Orville did it in the 20th century to the chagrin of all the theorists of the day. It took over five years before many in the western world really believed it. Many skeptical people would only believe it when they saw powered flight with their own eyes.

 

 

[eightyknots]

The simplicity, internal combustion engines are quite complex to achieve what they do, an electric motor has one moving part.

Providing there are no vulnerable through-bolts in electric motors I would prefer an electric motor to run the prop on my aircraft.

 

Electric motors seem to run trouble free for decades. EG, I have a fridge that's 15 years old and a freezer that's 25 years old and they're still running. I know that running a compressor at a duty cycle of perhaps 30% is not the same as running a prop 100% of the time but electric motors do seem to have a long life.

 

 

[lark]

Think ill just stick with fossil fuel power!

 

 

[Billzilla]

Yes, like powered flight! Many theorist said this would be "impossible", but Wilbur and Orville did it in the 20th century to the chagrin of all the theorists of the day. It took over five years before many in the western world really believed it. Many skeptical people would only believe it when they saw powered flight with their own eyes.

Ah-hem .... Richard Pearse thanks!

 

And yes the march of technology goes on. Look at the latest lithium batteries and compare them to the best of the nickel-cadmium units of twenty years ago. The lithium ones are vastly better in every way. The next generation of batteries is going to be better but I don't know what form they will take. As I've mentioned I'm a fan of graphene batteries though. Maybe zinc, who know?

 

 

[Gforce]

Of course, nothing is bullet-proof, and the wise flyer always flies in a manner where a sudden power-train failure is no more than an inconvenience. I've been 'inconvenienced' more than 50 times in nearly 40 years of flying, mostly in the early days of ultralights but also about ten times in helicopters (even three times in turbines, but not due to engine stoppage) and GA planes, so I tend to be scanning for forced landing sites whenever possible ... [ATTACH=full]21540[/ATTACH]

You have had 50 forced landings ??? This must be some kind of record ! You are putting fuel in the fuel tank right ?

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

You have had 50 forced landings ??? This must be some kind of record ! You are putting fuel in the fuel tank right ?

Mine is nothing like a record, I know people with at least twice that number, that's how things were in the early days when we used converted mower and stationary engines in aircraft. My first ten failures were in my first ten powered flying hours ... and as I said that was nothing unusual in those days, in fact a flight of half an hour's duration without a problem of some kind was a talking point.

 

I've never run out of fuel, though headwinds have brought me close enough to have me sweating on a couple of occasions, so there's not been a fuel quantity management problem among them, but fuel has played its part, as has a multitude of other things. Some examples, I'll start with the fuel ones -

 

Left the Drifter tied down at Yeppoon private strip during cyclone Charlie circa 1987, it rained for a week, fuel check afterwards was Ok, engine quit at 50ft. Fuel drain turned out to be ALL water which got in through the vent via the rear wing support tube. Was sufficient fuel in the hoses, bowls, filters and header for warm-up, taxy amnd take-off ...

 

Jetranger flamed out in the hover due to clogged filters from bacteria growth in the fuel, not uncommon in the tropics.

 

Carby flooded on Drifter due to small piece of fuel line sliced off by the carby inlet barb when fitted at the factory. Half moon shaped tiny piece held the float valve open.

 

Some others - apart from a dozen or so early failures of modified mower and stationary engines as described before, and those mechanicals mentioned in previous post -

 

Inflight magneto drive failure on C172 (Continental), noticed the power drop, then had fouled lower plug on one cylinder, on other mag, during descent.

 

Jetranger tailrotor blade tape came unstuck one side and wrapped around the other side of blade causing major vibration, precautionary landing with 5 PoB.

 

R22 clutch light on during cruise, autorotation forced landing, was only a blown fuse to annunciator, nothing wrong with clutch.

 

R22 broken tailrotor drive belts, autorotation landing.

 

Rotorway Exec, broken tailrotor drive belt - auto landing

 

Rotorway Exec failed t/r tensioner - auto landing.

 

Jetranger failed hydraulics twice, standard forced landing once, continued to close to destination second time.

 

Drifter - two broken cranks, one gearbox failure.

 

Drifter - failed coil

 

Drifter - throttle cable detached from carby slider

 

Drifter - failed plug, at least twice.

 

J3 Kitten (similar) R277 stopped, wouldn't restart in the air, no explanation, never found out why, ran perfectly after that.

 

KH4 helicopter, engine and rotor tach sender simultaneous inflight failures, lightning suspected.

 

J3 Kitten (similar) aileron flutter.

 

J3 Kitten similar - windshield detached.

 

J6 Karatoo, oil cooler hose burst spraying oil on exhaust (lotsa smoke)

 

Jackeroo VW powered, carby ice, no carby heat.

 

KH4 helicopter, tailrotor controls failed in hover after rebuild.

 

J3 Super Cub, big vibration - prop bolt failures after rebuild.

 

Forced down by weather twice.

 

I'd have to go through my logs to find a few more but you get the idea, if you fly over a long period of time things do happen, especially if using converted engines that weren't meant for the purpose. But none of the above were really anything to be too concerned about, except the inconvenience, there's nothing there that basic training doesn't prepare you for and if you stick to the 'fly safe' rules there's always a way out of the situation. I never bent anything (yet) in any of those inconveniences.

 

 

[lark]

Geez, i havent had that many engine failures with my lawnmower!

 

 

[boingk]

Strap your lawnmowers engine to a hanglider and ask it to run at about 100% throttle continuously with a prop instead of blades and I reckon you might get a few!

 

- boingk

 

 

[paulh]

I see the common thread in HITC's incidents, electrical or mechanical stuff, maybe I could take up paragliding with only a bunch of fancy fabric and string to worry about. (could however end with undercarriage failure at some time)

 

 

[lark]

Strap your lawnmowers engine to a hanglider and ask it to run at about 100% throttle continuously with a prop instead of blades and I reckon you might get a few!- boingk

Yeah, I reckon your probably right! and it does do such a nice job on the grass! Think ill keep it hovering at around 1 ft agl:cheezy grin:

 

 

[boingk]

I see the common thread in HITC's incidents, electrical or mechanical stuff, maybe I could take up paragliding with only a bunch of fancy fabric and string to worry about. (could however end with undercarriage failure at some time)

I'd love to go paragliding, even more to get my own licence and rig. I'll hopefully be moving to Newcastle after training at the Police College here in Goulburn so would have a grand spot for it.

 

By the by... has anyone got any links to or pictures of electrically powered paragliders? That'd surely be a good starting point for electric aircraft.

 

Cheers - boingk

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ah-hem .... Richard Pearse thanks!

Meh, he wasn't American so he doesn't count.

 

Look at the latest lithium batteries and compare them to the best of the nickel-cadmium units of twenty years ago.?

Theres a reason why NC still sell at multiples of thousands to every lithium.

 

The next generation of batteries is going to be better but I don't know what form they will take.?

So along with all the others who say this in this thread and all over the internet and to give balance, I take the right to say that "just around the corner" there is a new ICE coming that has 200hp, uses a litre of fuel every 10 hours and fits into my pocket

 

 

[eightyknots]

Mine is nothing like a record, I know people with at least twice that number, that's how things were in the early days when we used converted mower and stationary engines in aircraft. My first ten failures were in my first ten powered flying hours ... and as I said that was nothing unusual in those days, in fact a flight of half an hour's duration without a problem of some kind was a talking point.I've never run out of fuel, though headwinds have brought me close enough to have me sweating on a couple of occasions, so there's not been a fuel quantity management problem among them, but fuel has played its part, as has a multitude of other things. Some examples, I'll start with the fuel ones -

 

Left the Drifter tied down at Yeppoon private strip during cyclone Charlie circa 1987, it rained for a week, fuel check afterwards was Ok, engine quit at 50ft. Fuel drain turned out to be ALL water which got in through the vent via the rear wing support tube. Was sufficient fuel in the hoses, bowls, filters and header for warm-up, taxy amnd take-off ...

 

Jetranger flamed out in the hover due to clogged filters from bacteria growth in the fuel, not uncommon in the tropics.

 

Carby flooded on Drifter due to small piece of fuel line sliced off by the carby inlet barb when fitted at the factory. Half moon shaped tiny piece held the float valve open.

 

Some others - apart from a dozen or so early failures of modified mower and stationary engines as described before, and those mechanicals mentioned in previous post -

 

Inflight magneto drive failure on C172 (Continental), noticed the power drop, then had fouled lower plug on one cylinder, on other mag, during descent.

 

Jetranger tailrotor blade tape came unstuck one side and wrapped around the other side of blade causing major vibration, precautionary landing with 5 PoB.

 

R22 clutch light on during cruise, autorotation forced landing, was only a blown fuse to annunciator, nothing wrong with clutch.

 

R22 broken tailrotor drive belts, autorotation landing.

 

Rotorway Exec, broken tailrotor drive belt - auto landing

 

Rotorway Exec failed t/r tensioner - auto landing.

 

Jetranger failed hydraulics twice, standard forced landing once, continued to close to destination second time.

 

Drifter - two broken cranks, one gearbox failure.

 

Drifter - failed coil

 

Drifter - throttle cable detached from carby slider

 

Drifter - failed plug, at least twice.

 

J3 Kitten (similar) R277 stopped, wouldn't restart in the air, no explanation, never found out why, ran perfectly after that.

 

KH4 helicopter, engine and rotor tach sender simultaneous inflight failures, lightning suspected.

 

J3 Kitten (similar) aileron flutter.

 

J3 Kitten similar - windshield detached.

 

J6 Karatoo, oil cooler hose burst spraying oil on exhaust (lotsa smoke)

 

Jackeroo VW powered, carby ice, no carby heat.

 

KH4 helicopter, tailrotor controls failed in hover after rebuild.

 

J3 Super Cub, big vibration - prop bolt failures after rebuild.

 

Forced down by weather twice.

 

I'd have to go through my logs to find a few more but you get the idea, if you fly over a long period of time things do happen, especially if using converted engines that weren't meant for the purpose. But none of the above were really anything to be too concerned about, except the inconvenience, there's nothing there that basic training doesn't prepare you for and if you stick to the 'fly safe' rules there's always a way out of the situation. I never bent anything (yet) in any of those inconveniences.

Wow: that's some list!

 

 

[Gforce]

Mine is nothing like a record, I know people with at least twice that number, that's how things were in the early days when we used converted mower and stationary engines in aircraft. My first ten failures were in my first ten powered flying hours ... and as I said that was nothing unusual in those days, in fact a flight of half an hour's duration without a problem of some kind was a talking point.I've never run out of fuel, though headwinds have brought me close enough to have me sweating on a couple of occasions, so there's not been a fuel quantity management problem among them, but fuel has played its part, as has a multitude of other things. Some examples, I'll start with the fuel ones -

 

Left the Drifter tied down at Yeppoon private strip during cyclone Charlie circa 1987, it rained for a week, fuel check afterwards was Ok, engine quit at 50ft. Fuel drain turned out to be ALL water which got in through the vent via the rear wing support tube. Was sufficient fuel in the hoses, bowls, filters and header for warm-up, taxy amnd take-off ...

 

Jetranger flamed out in the hover due to clogged filters from bacteria growth in the fuel, not uncommon in the tropics.

 

Carby flooded on Drifter due to small piece of fuel line sliced off by the carby inlet barb when fitted at the factory. Half moon shaped tiny piece held the float valve open.

 

Some others - apart from a dozen or so early failures of modified mower and stationary engines as described before, and those mechanicals mentioned in previous post -

 

Inflight magneto drive failure on C172 (Continental), noticed the power drop, then had fouled lower plug on one cylinder, on other mag, during descent.

 

Jetranger tailrotor blade tape came unstuck one side and wrapped around the other side of blade causing major vibration, precautionary landing with 5 PoB.

 

R22 clutch light on during cruise, autorotation forced landing, was only a blown fuse to annunciator, nothing wrong with clutch.

 

R22 broken tailrotor drive belts, autorotation landing.

 

Rotorway Exec, broken tailrotor drive belt - auto landing

 

Rotorway Exec failed t/r tensioner - auto landing.

 

Jetranger failed hydraulics twice, standard forced landing once, continued to close to destination second time.

 

Drifter - two broken cranks, one gearbox failure.

 

Drifter - failed coil

 

Drifter - throttle cable detached from carby slider

 

Drifter - failed plug, at least twice.

 

J3 Kitten (similar) R277 stopped, wouldn't restart in the air, no explanation, never found out why, ran perfectly after that.

 

KH4 helicopter, engine and rotor tach sender simultaneous inflight failures, lightning suspected.

 

J3 Kitten (similar) aileron flutter.

 

J3 Kitten similar - windshield detached.

 

J6 Karatoo, oil cooler hose burst spraying oil on exhaust (lotsa smoke)

 

Jackeroo VW powered, carby ice, no carby heat.

 

KH4 helicopter, tailrotor controls failed in hover after rebuild.

 

J3 Super Cub, big vibration - prop bolt failures after rebuild.

 

Forced down by weather twice.

 

I'd have to go through my logs to find a few more but you get the idea, if you fly over a long period of time things do happen, especially if using converted engines that weren't meant for the purpose. But none of the above were really anything to be too concerned about, except the inconvenience, there's nothing there that basic training doesn't prepare you for and if you stick to the 'fly safe' rules there's always a way out of the situation. I never bent anything (yet) in any of those inconveniences.

 

 

 

I have had one and one two many in our 1942 Auster.. lost a mag and we put it down on a golf course. Made the news ! Oh dear.... My Dad has had another in his CT4 where the engines literally started to disintegrate, I think it was a conrod that came though the cowl. I'm hoping that's the only one but of course, will always plan for one.

 

I dislike flying over Tiger country and my new plane will be powered by a 912... until my FlyNano Gets here then I can really start to prove that electric " personal aircraft " have a real place in our hobby.

 

 

[M61A1]

So along with all the others who say this in this thread and all over the internet and to give balance, I take the right to say that "just around the corner" there is a new ICE coming that has 200hp, uses a litre of fuel every 10 hours and fits into my pocket

I'd be more interested in the type of fuel that such an engine used.......calorific value for density must be awesome.Electric aircraft are already here, just not as practical as we'd like. They've already put up large (I mean large twin size) for significant flight times, they're just not affordable to the public right now.

 

 

[Gforce]

........I think this has really been, and continues to be a really interesting discussion that in part, has giving me some insight in to how people will perceive electric Aircraft, specially the FlyNano when I'm able to bring it to Australia in the next year. However, No one has been able to answer my original question. I`m taking it as a No.

 

 

[boingk]

I haven't heard of one, and I'd also be tempted to say its an almost definite 'No'.

 

These sort of craft generally generate a lot of interest, and I would be highly surprised that one of them, if it were registered and flying, had not garnered a spot in any of the standard aviation magazines - especially Sport Pilot.

 

- boingk

 

 

[Guernsey]

A large electric motor would require a large fuse in the fuselage. .

 

Alan.

 

 

[Billzilla]

The problem of failures in any machine - electric or ICE - can be reduced greatly by applying a couple of practices; Either lifing components and/or regular inspections to determine if they are within safe specifications.

 

It's why airliners are so safe and reliable.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

yep lots of power failures from the early days. The demo Condors/Stolareos only carried 20 mins of fuel.(kept everyone close to the strip). So usually ran them dry. Had to walk back a few times. Engine out spot landing comps were fun, put the competitive pressure on and watch the landing gear spread. Lost a prop and pully on a robin powered Thruster, never found it.

 

early rotax lock ups and crank failures. Even now those pesky Pioneer two strokes fail for one reason or another strange how it's usually when the Vario starts beeping like crazy.

 

 

[Marty_d]

A large electric motor would require a large fuse in the fuselage. .Alan.

Where's the smiley for *groan*...

 

 

[skeptic36]