Horizontal separation from controlled or restricted airspace?

[ayavner]

Hi there -

 

OK so I have scoured all of my notes and text books, the RAA Ops Manual, CAO 95.55 and the Visual Flight Guide.

 

I can't find any definitive answer on how much horizontal distance is required to stay clear of control steps or active restricted areas.

 

Do we just treat it like a line of cloud, i.e. 1500 metres? Best-effort?

 

Thanks!

 

adam

 

 

[rgmwa]

From the VFR Guide under `Avoiding Controlled Airspace (AIP ENR 1.1)

 

"When operating VFR in Class E or G airspace, the following tolerances must be applied to the planned tracks in order to avoid controlled airspace or restricted areas:

 

1-2000 AGL +/- 1 nm (day) +/-2 nm (night)

 

2000-5000AGL +/- 2 nm (day) +/- 3nm (night)

 

5001-10000AGL +/- 4 nm (day) +/-5 nm (night)

 

Gliders should apply +/- 5 nm

 

From 10001 to FL200 all VFR aircraft should apply +/- 8 nm"

 

rgmwa

 

 

[ayavner]

perfect, thanks!!

 

 

[ayavner]

... also, to head off the inevitable beard-tearing and gnashing of teeth over how this should be avoided, or all of the ways this can be dangerous and/or irresponsible, please note I am just studying for a test.

 

thanks :-)

 

 

[Guernsey]

A very good question Ayavner, I wonder how many of us could quote those figures without having to look them up?

 

Alan.

 

 

[rankamateur]

I am interested in the +/- terminology, does that read from 4nm outside to 4 nm inside the controlled airspace between 5001 and 10000 AMSL in day light hours? So the higher you fly, the slopier you can become around these steps.

 

 

[metalman]

I am interested in the +/- terminology, does that read from 4nm outside to 4 nm inside the controlled airspace between 5001 and 10000 AMSL in day light hours? So the higher you fly, the slopier you can become around these steps.

That is planned track, if your plan puts you inside a control zone on the +- then you need to plan further out, it's interesting with GPS use( and tablets) that we can fly very accurately up to the edges ,but imagine a power failure as you skirt the edge of the line on the screen, could see you ending up in a VCA very quickly

 

 

[Yenn]

Sometimes the boundaries are not where you would expect them to be. For instance I think that Brisbane international is a measured distance from the runway threshold, rather than the reference point of the aerodrome.

 

 

[kaz3g]

A very good question Ayavner, I wonder how many of us could quote those figures without having to look them up?Alan.

 

I have them printed on the bottom margin of my flight plan along with v speeds and other useful stuff.

 

Kaz

 

 

[cscotthendry]

That is planned track, if your plan puts you inside a control zone on the +- then you need to plan further out, it's interesting with GPS use( and tablets) that we can fly very accurately up to the edges ,but imagine a power failure as you skirt the edge of the line on the screen, could see you ending up in a VCA very quickly

MM, I think that in the case of a power fail, (engine fail?) all bets are off and you go where you need to and CTA be damned.

 

 

[metalman]

MM, I think that in the case of a power fail, (engine fail?) all bets are off and you go where you need to and CTA be damned.

No mate ,I meant a failure of the electronic toys, I doubt they'd accept that as a valid VCA excuse,,,,engine failure ,or any airframe or PAX emergency I'd do WHATEVER is needed regardless of lines on a map

 

 

[ayavner]

passed! 95%... thanks guys!!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I believe the thickish blue line on the VTC is a certain distance ??.........at Montpelier we are right on the edge of Townsville Class C and manouvering in the pattern is carefully considered at times to stay clear..........................................................Maj...

 

 

[OzScot]

Do these numbers still apply? After finding this thread i wanted to make sure i could verify the numbers in the AIP but have had real trouble finding them - and checking the VFRG. All i can find is what's below. The required tolerances make sense so i'm happy to work to them (and some!) but just interested in if it's changed.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

Avoiding controlled airspace AIP ENR 1.1

 

Unless an appropriate clearance has been obtained, the pilot in command of an aircraft operating in Class G airspace, or a VFR aircraft operating in Class E airspace, must not allow the aircraft to enter:

 

 

 

a. airspace for which ATC clearance is required; or

 

 

 

b. an active restricted area.

 

 

 

Note 1:

 

Aircraft within controlled airspace or a restricted area may be operating up to the boundary of the airspace.

 

 

 

Note 2:

 

For aircraft operating in close proximity to an airspace boundary where there is a risk of an airspace infringement, the pilot in command should consider obtaining a clearance to enter the airspace or altering track to remain well clear.

 

 

 

[KRviator]

The actual reference - AIP ENR 1.1.19.12 has been changed from specific numbers to what you quoted. "Strict liability" anyone? You can't use the "my FPT was outside the 1NM buffer" anymore...

 

 

[OzScot]

Great- thanks! I was banging my head trying to find that one :-)

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes I believe the above is current.....'or altering track to stay well clear'..............pretty hard to do when your airfield circuits are right literally on the boundary .............

 

 

[dutchroll]

Yeah those numbers don't exist anymore.

 

The requirement to avoid controlled airspace and restricted areas is simple: do not cross the boundary, and do not bust the airspace altitude depicted on the chart!

 

I regularly fly up to about 3nm from the eastern boundary of the Singleton restricted area (but I know exactly where it is). The controllers are usually pretty good - they know I'm doing aeros & manoeuvring and continually turning away from it. Once in a blue moon one will call up on area freq and ask me if I'm aware of it and when I say "yeah no probs", they're happy with that and leave me alone.

 

If in doubt as to the boundary, go to the Designated Airspace Handbook and get the exact boundary description!

 

Give yourself 500' below the lower limit of controlled airspace on the charts, and give yourself at least a nm or 2 from a restricted area boundary which you know, or more than that if you're not familiar with it. Just common sense.

 

 

[Pearo]

I fly right on the boundary of Brisbane Class C all the time, just dont cross it! I also monitor BNE centre when I am skirting their airspace. Its actually worth monitoring centre anyway, because they will often broadcast advisory traffic messages, which is a nice thing to have.

 

Also, when flying around amberly, I always was always taught to obtain a code and monitor amberly clearance just in case I wander too close! TO be honest, maybe I should apply this principle to Brisbane CTA as well.

 

 

[OzScot]

These are great replies all - thanks!

 

My query arose because I was flying from beechmont to Q1 in SE Qld which takes you close to restricted airspace and near and below the Gold Coast class C. Last time the Brisbane centre controller called me a couple of times to let me know that the airspace was active and find out my intentions - it left me wondering if I had missed some requirement of flight planning that required a 2nm tolerance or something near these airspace. Ragardless, he was likely just being cautious which seems like a good thing. Good to know for sure though - thanks all for taking the time to reply :-)

 

 

[David Isaac]

The controller would have been happy you replied. Many don't.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Good to see guys here aware of their airspace!

 

I've heard a number of calls on my area freq where controllers have asked an aircraft to turn around as they're heading straight towards a restricted area or controlled airspace. GA guys not checking their charts or notams and just figuring they can go in a straight line to wherever they like. So yeah I think ATC gets a bit gun-shy sometimes. Can't blame them for it and it's good to know they're keeping one eye on the unidentified traffic skirting area boundaries.

 

It's embarrassing to hear "err no I thought I was clear" when their reported altitude & position clearly falls smack in the middle of the area limits depicted in big red ink on the chart (and which have been the same limits forever!).

 

It also takes 10 or 20 seconds to call up the Centre FIS freq and get the status of a restricted area if you're not sure and controllers are always happy to answer the question.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Monitoring the relevant area freq. also helps - not just sitting fat dumb and happy on 126.7.

 

 

[ian00798]

It's not really a case of controllers being gun shy, it's more that they want to know your intentions so if you are seeking a clearance they have adequate time to process the request. Depending on the airspace, there can be a bit involved in giving a clearance. We may have to create a flight plan, assign a squawk code, identify and clear the aircraft, and perhaps coordinate your flight with adjoining air traffic control units. This can take time, so ideally we like to sort this out during low workload situations.

 

Additionally, we have a duty of care for all aircraft in the airspace, that is why if two VFR aircraft start looking like they are going to hit, we will try and alert the pilots. See and avoid is quite poor really, it's not uncommon to see aircraft less than 0.5NM apart and neither pilots ever report a sighting. Same thing with restricted areas, if we are starting to wonder if you know about it, we will try and contact you before it's too late. Don't be shy with responding, you won't be reported for nearly entering a restricted area, you will be given advice on how to avoid it and sent on your way with a g'day. once you enter the area, it is a violation of controlled airspace and must be reported. And my best bit of advice is read your notams properly, including the head office notams. It's not uncommon for temporary restricted areas to be activated and they won't be on charts. Ultimately, if your radio isn't required to be on another frequency for CTAF etc, you should be on the area frequency monitoring, and if you have two radios you should have one on area. We send out all kinds of important information, like hazard alerts, updated met and notams, traffic alerts etc. If ever in doubt just call up centre, ultimately our goal is to get everyone safely through the airspace.

 

 

[Nightmare]

From the VFR Guide under `Avoiding Controlled Airspace (AIP ENR 1.1)"When operating VFR in Class E or G airspace, the following tolerances must be applied to the planned tracks in order to avoid controlled airspace or restricted areas:

 

1-2000 AGL +/- 1 nm (day) +/-2 nm (night)

 

2000-5000AGL +/- 2 nm (day) +/- 3nm (night)

 

5001-10000AGL +/- 4 nm (day) +/-5 nm (night)

 

Gliders should apply +/- 5 nm

 

From 10001 to FL200 all VFR aircraft should apply +/- 8 nm"

 

rgmwa

I just completed and passed my Air Legislation exam last week. Would you believe they are still putting in the old horizontal separation from controlled and restricted airspace questions in the exam as listed in the above quote? I actually failed it the week before as this information was no where to be seen in any of my study material or legislation. I only passed the re-sit because I asked my instructor after the 1st exam. Doesn't RAA update their exams when there is a legislation change?