Air shows are no goes?

[flyerme]

I can't help but notice some fly-in/airshows have had the /Airshow removed from their programs?

 

I know that at least 1 is due to inssurence.. Are the others the same? why is it so? and if the " Structured flights"can not take place, can normal flying take place during the flyin? thanks

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Flyme

 

As I understand it, air shows are very different to flyins, where the later is just as described and the former is an organised flying display. That's where the insurance costs apply and is very expensive

 

Yes, no restriction of flying on the day and I assume it would be encouraged for the spectators enjoyment also.

 

Phil

 

 

[flyerme]

FlymeAs I understand it, air shows are very different to flyins, where the later is just as described and the former is an organised flying display. That's where the insurance costs apply and is very expensive

Yes, no restriction of flying on the day and I assume it would be encouraged for the spectators enjoyment also.

 

Phil

thankem sir:smile:

 

 

[flyerme]

so would one need insurance for a flyin? say at a wee lil private strip?

 

 

[flyerme]

I ask as myself and a couple others have been talking about a Low Performance/STOL (or any aircraft that can land in 300meters as the Jabi does) Fly in and BBQ here in the future but wondered about the insurance aspects of it.thanks

 

 

[Teckair]

To be sure you would have to talk to lawyer. In my opinion (and not many others) insurance is a ever increasing problem slowly sucking the blood out of society and should be shunned wherever possible. It is a system where you get to pay out money for, in almost all cases no return, usually the only winners are accident prone people, lawyers and insurance companies.

 

I think if there is a accident on your property it would have to be established that you were negligent in some way before there would be a case against you. People have flyins all the time without insurance cover and things go wrong and the pilot in command is responsible for their actions. At the end of the day you must decide if you want to take the risk, but the last person to get advise from is your insurance rep.

 

 

[Teckair]

I would have thought 300 metres would be a bit short for a Jabiru, probably not a good idea to encourage them to land there, but once again it comes back to the pilot making that decision. Just make sure people know how long your strip is.

 

 

[lark]

As soon as you ask about anything these days regarding whether you need a permit,insurance, council approval etc the answer seems to be always YES. Guess this is to cover their own butt!

 

 

[facthunter]

IF you organise anything there seems to be an implied duty of care that leaves you or anyone connected with it's functioning with some kind of inferred liability. Coverage can be fairly cheap if you are lucky. If you have no assetts you are sweet but once they see you have come good they can front up . ( Makes you want to look for a nice 3rd world country doesn't it?) Nev

 

 

[flyerme]

thanks guys

 

 

[frank marriott]

opinion only not LEGAL ADVICE

 

If you have say a BBQ/meeting or the like then people can walk, drive, ride a horse to the location or even fly if a suitable ALA for their aircraft type exists.

 

Advertised airshow - a different ballgame.

 

 

[poteroo]

I can't help but notice some fly-in/airshows have had the /Airshow removed from their programs?I know that at least 1 is due to inssurence.. Are the others the same? why is it so? and if the " Structured flights"can not take place, can normal flying take place during the flyin? thanks

My understanding of it is:

 

If it's an 'airshow', (free, or charge), and open to the public - then you need the full monty of insurance, and CASA will require you to adhere to a full suite of rules, as will any organisation under whose banner it's being run, eg SAAA, RAAus. Display flying will require full and individual approval.

 

If it's a 'fly-in' to a public airport - then you should not require anything special because the existing owner/landlord will already cover the risks of normal operations. If you plan to do anything other than arrive and depart according to the rules - then the owner will certainly have an interest in being covered for any extra risk to which your ops will expose them. In other words - if you do a bit of impromptu display flying at your local airport - the owner might feel a bit unhappy if you bend it, because they will be held responsible as well as yourself.

 

If it's on private property, miles from neighbours,and there has been no invitation to non-flying people to attend - then the landowner is fairly secure, and the risks apply on an individual operator basis. However, once an aircraft is operated outside of what would be considered 'normal' operations - the landowners' risk increases considerably. Unless they specifically require there to be no 'display' flying - then it may be taken that they agree with it. (like your kids argue!!)

 

But, anything is open to legal challenge - even your dear old grannys' will.

 

happy days,

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

A fly in is just that, you fly in, have a good time, then leave, there isn't an aerial display or program of flying displays other than just a few blokes or ladies going for a flight or two. An Airshow is an event put on by an organisation that have everything from port-a-loos, first aid personnel and fast food stalls, they have an enormous insurance bourdon, the fly in is far more relaxed, how ever I'm sure if someone wants to take legal action against you for what ever reason, they will, advertise it as a fly in, come one come all, let the pilots know what is available, fuel, underwing camping, airfield situation, frequency if any, power, approaches, local attractions and aviation hazards. Put out a mud map so folks know what to expect, contact details and have a great time.

 

Most importantly, let me know when it's on, and I'll be there.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[XAIRVTW]

Insurance is the problem I know my aero Club dont advertise an airshow we list it as an open day.

 

 

[Riley]

Hey Flyerme, can you PM me on a different matter? For some reason I've been blocked from sending you a message. Tks 'n rgds.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Just to confirm the difference between air shows and fly-ins again

 

The organisers planned to have a fly past of aircraft at the fly in.

 

This was cancelled due to insurance costs. (air show)

 

This decision should not deter pilots from flying circuits or doing local tours of the area, which is a great picturesque opportunity during the fly in

 

The more activity the better in my view

 

Phil

 

 

[boingk]

Private flyin? Local flyers? Invite only?

 

Sounds like a non-public event to me... ie invite only... ie no excess insurance.

 

Go for your life mate. At least... that's my opinion.

 

- boingk

 

 

[flyerme]

As I mentioned we are just toying with the idea at present but it looks like it could be done...I was thinking an open day as I know a few non flying community members are also keen. thanks heaps for all your input guys:thumb up:

 

 

[flyerme]

Hey Flyerme, can you PM me on a different matter? For some reason I've been blocked from sending you a message. Tks 'n rgds.

too easy:yes:

 

 

[Yenn]

( Makes you want to look for a nice 3rd world country doesn't it?) Nev

 

Just wait a few years Nev and you won't need to move. The way our pollies and beaurocrats are ruining Oz, we will soon be third world.

 

 

[paulh]

I suggest that the club/property owner/organiser of the open day or fly in would need to ensure that their public liability insurance was up to scratch for the normal every day stuff ie a visiting pilot or passenger trips over say some stairs or something whilst using the toilet, hurts themselves, decides that someone was negligent and should pay the medical bills. My organisation of about 50 people has I think $5M PL insurance which is only just enough.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Here we go again. . . . " In the UK ". . . . ( I know,. . .I know. . . but that's where I is. . .) We don't have so much of a worry about litigation with regard to open days at our airfield, this is because we are listed in ALL of the published National airfield guides, and any pilot wishing to attend has to ensure that his aircraft can handle our Bijou runways. . . ! The longest of which is actually 545 Metres, plus a generous over-run at the end of 25L of around another 270m, in the event of a "whoopsie Doo - crap artiste - oh - my - god - I've - screwed - this - up - landing excercise. . " If the runways advertised don't equate with a visitors' aircraft POH specs. . . , then he shouldn't attempt a landing. If he does, . . . and screws it up, then it is his problem, and his alone, OK, we'll do our best to drag him out of the trees so that he is alive to buy one of Tracy's breakfasts. . . , but we are not legally liable for his mishap. ( we have two Very Good solicitors and a Barrister who are members of the Club, so best of luck in a lawsuit. . . .)

 

We always advertise our events ( as another poster has already said ) as an OPEN DAY,. . . . the PIC has to determine if he, and his aircraft can handle the constraints of the site, along with the weather on the day. . . and so it should be in my opinion, Don't blame others if you screw up. We have a system in the UK called PPR. Prior Permission Required. This means that, apart from regular visitors, who know the scam, any pilot wishing to visit for the first time must telephone first, stating aircraft type. If, in our considered opinion, the aircraft is a bit too big, or too fast in landing speed requirement,. . . for the site to safely accommodate, then we will decline permission. End of problem. It works for us. . . . the only Flying Displays we allow are 1) Model flyers ( when everything else is grounded ) or 2) Low Level Dispaly Authority Examinations, as our airfield manager is one of the few CAA Examiners in the UK who is able to grant / renew these permits. ( again - everything else is grounded during. )

 

Being a member of ANOTHER local Club, with a single grass runway ( 450m ) we don't have any events as such, other than fly-in barbecue days. . . . if someone gets it badly wrong, and bursts into flames, . . .at least we can save money on charcoal for the barbie. . .

 

Phil