johncarlo Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 I got behind the Darling Harbour flight simulator last week and it was fun but a little underwhelming as the real pilot did most of the work. But I'm doing my first TIF tomorrow with Curtis and hopefully attain some licence to fly a plane eventually, my lifelong dream! Question, am I too old for this? What if I want to become a commercial pilot? (I'm currently a professional at one of the big 4 banks - yes, looking for a career change). What are your thoughts and feedback? Earning capacity? I'm sure I'll be learning as I go, but real excited to start this adventure!
Ultralights Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 sadly the Aviation industry is not a real big earner, unless you make it to airline level, even so, only after a huge expenditure in training. at 32, your not to old, but what exactly do you want to do? instructing? airline? charter etc. its a long and expensive, but very rewarding career experience wise. try a few different places for TIFs as each will be different, eg, Red Baron at Bankstown is a little more expensive, but will train you on a different level to most others, using RAAF military techniques so you will get a PPL or CPl, as well as be aerobatic rated at the same time. (not as an added extra) then there is the recreational flying path, which is substantially cheaper and just as much, if not more fun.
johncarlo Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 There was an article in the Sydney Morning Herald last week that some pilots earn $500K p.a.! I suppose they're the 747/A380 pilots. Realistically, if I offered myself 8 years of flying study, could I be a commercial pilot by 40 and earn an average income of $100K? 1
Ultralights Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 i dont know any pilots earning 500K, top check and training captain will be on near 200K, but that like saying every actor out there is an A list actor earning millions, not to mention, to get to that level takes a looog time. and lots of Money. one path is a cadetship, with eitehr REX or sharp airines, they will give you a job, but you have to borrow off them approx $100K, and be bonded to the company for another 6 to 9 years, even then a captains wage is about 80K, first officer is about 50K i would say at a rough guess, the average wage of a pilot in oz is around 60 to 80K. after a bit of digging, current award pays The base rates are as follows: Fixed wing single engine $29,182.00 Fixed Wing Multi engine $35,116.00 Helicopter Single engine $40,448.00 Multi engine $43,344.00 If you are a casual then the hourly rates are: Fixed wing single engine $45.60 per hour Fixed Wing Multi engine $54.87 per hour Helicopter Single engine $66.16 per hour Multi engine $70.85 per hour Jetstar 6 weeks Annual Leave + Allowances $35 000 for endo + Food Accomodation (they are now doing the endo in NZ so forgot shacking up with relos or friends in Auz!) $15 000 for command upgrade RDO’s can be counted overseas A320 Capt $141 860 FO $ 85 116 A330 Capt $ 153 210 FO $91 926 Virgin Blue Fleet B737 B737 E Jet E Jet Rank Capt FO Capt FO Year 20 179,000 107,400 139,200 83,520 And finally Qantas Fleet 747-400 A330 747-300 767 747-400 A330 747-400 767 Rank capt capt capt capt fo fo fo fo Year 12 206 197 191 176 136 130 126 116 11 205 195 190 175 135 128 125 115 10 204 194 188 174 133 127 123 114 9 202 193 187 173 132 126 122 113 8 201 191 186 172 131 125 121 112 7 199 190 184 170 128 122 118 109 6 198 188 183 169 125 119 116 107 5 196 187 182 168 122 116 113 104 4 195 186 180 167 117 112 109 100 3 193 184 179 165 115 109 106 98 2 192 183 177 164 110 105 102 94 1 190 181 176 163 106 101 98 90 sadly nothing anywhere near the $500K sprouted in the paper. In this industry, its WHO you know, not What you know. the usual path is get a CPL licence, some multi engine time if possible, then head for the bush, Northern WA and NT to get the first job, then work up to there.. or the Cadetship option.. depends on your situation as to which path you would like. or another is, RAAus licence, eventually get an instructor rating, and build hours that way, but good instructors love to teach, and students will know if your just there to build hours for the next level job. or, keep the well paying job, and instead of spending $100K plus, just buy your own aircraft for half that, and enjoy flying whenever you want! 1 1
Danger Mouse Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 You are never too old, in fact you could knock over a CPL in about 18 months even working full time and devoting all your weekends and holidays towards your licence. You personal circumstances are probably the bigger obstacle, if you are married with kids or plan to be in the near future this will impact how much time and effort you can put into a career change. The early years of a CPL often involve 'going bush' for experience - something very few partners will tolerate, and jobs near major population centres are hard to find and do not pay well. Realistically you are better off treating your current job as a means to an end, use the cash and opportunity cost to buy an aircraft and instead enjoy flying as a private or sport pilot.
johncarlo Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 Wow thanks for all that info. I am indeed single and no commitments whatsoever. I could move and live as a 20 yr old quite easily. I guess I have to put on my thinking cap and really think about what I want to do. My first goal is to learn to fly, so that's a tick already. Whether I go for a career change... I don't know if I want to take a pay cut for many years. I will want to find a girl and get married in the next few years. But wow, an aircraft only costs $50K??
cscotthendry Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Airline pilots used to earn good money in this country, but Bob Hawke and Peter Abels decided that they didn't like that. So they got together and the rest, as they say...is history. IMHO, being an airline captain these days would be a bit like being a computer operator with spectacular views. If you really love flying, do what the airline captains do and get a small plane and fly for fun. That way you get to fly when you Want to, and go where You want to go. I know a few commercial pilots and they almost all say that flying the little plane is the "real" flying, ie stick and rudder vs flying an airliner on autopilot. With a private plane you get to throw it around the sky a bit. With an airliner, you can't upset Granny Jones in the third row, or one of the trolley tarts might spill the coffee on someone. Yes you can buy an aircraft for about $50K, but check out the maintenance expenses before you jump. Again, IMHO, recreational aviation is the way to go unless you're looking to make a career out of flying. There are a lot of flying machines in recreational aviation that can be had for even less than that $50K and you can maintain most of them yourself which helps heaps to keep the running costs down. Less running costs = more flying. See?
Danger Mouse Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 The purchase price is just part of the picture, running costs are your main concern and there is lots of great information on this site about the cost of operating a small aircraft and the pitfalls to look out for. I hope you enjoy your TIF, a simulator is no comparison to actually being up there. Let us know how you go.
johncarlo Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 Thanks guys for your generous input and encouragement. I look forward to the TIF tomorrow (apparently Curtis use a more "manual" plane using stick and rudder vs the more automatic sort) so it should be fun. I'll report back on Monday!
cscotthendry Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Off we go, into the wild blue yonder... Have a great TIF.
Guernsey Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Welcome johncarlo you are about to enter a very exciting phase of your life, how do I know, well I'm not a prophet.... I can just feel it in my water. Alan. ( been flying for over 50 yrs.) 1
johncarlo Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 Well I had my TIF on Saturday with Curtis and it was... easy?? All I was doing was moving a stick up-down-left-right, oh, and adjusting throttle... I guess I can't wait to actually start learning and mastering a plane. The instructor kept telling me to stop looking at the instrument panel and just look outside - I guess I didn't know my horizontal plane and kept sticking the nose up, and climbing obviously. I freaked out when he pulled the nose down and we dived for a moment. He had a great sense of humour. He even throttled down the plane and THAT freaked me out cos instictively I thought the plane would stall. Ah I'm such a silly newbie. Anyway I had a good chat with Dave from Gostner and I'm going to go with his school. I still have to decide with RAA or PPL, but by the sounds of it, PPL would end up same cost relatively as RAA is also $220 in a VH plane. I actually mixed up my appointment yesterday and went to The Oakes to see a nother Dave instead, and he wasn't there. Ended up having a good chat with Carl. Later that night Dave from Gostner called me and asked where I was and the mix up was revealed. Great guy he is. I'm looking forward to learning this craft. This air-craft!
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