RAA Requesting training details?

[boingk]

Hey there guys, just a random question... is it normal for RAA to request details of your training details after a ramp check?

 

I had a few items on the list (no demarcated flight plan on map, no MTOW placard) and overall though it was a positive experience. If theres something I need to do as far as airmanship I'd rather do it then sit there and think 'I'll be right'.

 

Only thing concerning me is that now RAA want details of my training... is that just to cover them in the case of my actually being improperly trained/endorsed/etc? A 'song and dance' so they can report back to CASA that they're doing the right thing? Or is it something more serious?

 

The ramp check fellows said no negative consequences were to come of the check and it was merely to keep tabs on RAA fliers and give us positive feedback on what we can do better. He also said the info would be passed on to RAA, so I guess that's what this is about then.

 

Anyone else got RAA asking after a ramp check at Temora?

 

Cheers - boingk

 

 

[flyerme]

Details of your training? shouldnt they already have a photo copy of your log book showing the hours and what transpired for training?

 

as this is required for certificate and for each endorcement.

 

 

[boingk]

You'd think so, but evidently not.

 

I only went through a Student licence, Pilot Certificate, Cross country and then Tailwheel endorsements... all within the space of around 8 weeks. They obviously don't have enough information.

 

- boingk

 

 

[damkia]

Could it be to follow up with the training organisation that you used to ensure they are actually covering the requirements with sufficient depth and importance in their training? That would be my first impression, if you were not actually penalised, and they implied that it was a form of audit. Audits are used to capture what is going wrong, not necessarily to punish who is doing it wrong. It is more of a "systems approach" to fixing problems.

 

 

[boingk]

Could be, damakia. I know that John out at the field today asked what was happening and seemed a bit on edge - perhaps they haven't kept their records up to date?

 

I should reinforce that its not me that has been requested to provide details, its the Goulburn Flight Training Centre.

 

- boingk

 

 

[mothra]

On edge or just trying to work out how to fix it with the bobcat? He loves that bobcat.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hey there guys, just a random question... is it normal for RAA to request details of your training details after a ramp check?I had a few items on the list (no demarcated flight plan on map, no MTOW placard) and overall though it was a positive experience. If theres something I need to do as far as airmanship I'd rather do it then sit there and think 'I'll be right'.

 

Only thing concerning me is that now RAA want details of my training... is that just to cover them in the case of my actually being improperly trained/endorsed/etc? A 'song and dance' so they can report back to CASA that they're doing the right thing? Or is it something more serious?

 

The ramp check fellows said no negative consequences were to come of the check and it was merely to keep tabs on RAA fliers and give us positive feedback on what we can do better. He also said the info would be passed on to RAA, so I guess that's what this is about then.

 

Anyone else got RAA asking after a ramp check at Temora?

 

Cheers - boingk

Best thing I've seen in years - this may focus on training standards, and directly prevent a continuation of the fatality trend.

 

 

[Tomo]

Your school should have your flight training records somewhere... just resend them through.

 

 

[boingk]

I believe its a big red folder with my name on it, and I'd assume its up to date. Its their paperwork though, so I really have no idea. I know my GA training it up to date, but not sure on the procedures for my RAA conversion... I'm fairly sure all my exam results etc were filed?

 

- boingk

 

 

[bilby54]

Best thing I've seen in years - this may focus on training standards, and directly prevent a continuation of the fatality trend.

Hey Turbz, how do we train against stupidity?

 

It is not confined to RAA either as I have done a few conversions over the years and there is a trend in GA training as well.

 

The last few accidents I attended smacked of pilot error but hang on.... all of them could fly a plane, were trained, tested and had a license of some sort to prove it. Just ask all of their dumbfounded mates and family who will tell you that they were great blokes and safe pilots.

 

Training of any sort does not make an unsafe pilot and god knows there are some shockers that have flown around for years without killing themselves, cannot fly straight and level, cannot find a CAO in two grabs so I am not convinced that discovering someone's training records is the answer. All RAA schools are audited.

 

What gets me everytime is that in Queensland at least, it requires a learner driver to have 100 hours instruction time with mum and dad without any curriculum but you can get pilot certificate with 20 hours of itemised instuction. Who has the most accidents, injuries and deaths? Who has the most disproportionate media coverage when an accident occurs?

 

 

[winsor68]

What gets me everytime is that in Queensland at least, it requires a learner driver to have 100 hours instruction time with mum and dad without any curriculum but you can get pilot certificate with 20 hours of itemised instuction. Who has the most accidents, injuries and deaths? Who has the most disproportionate media coverage when an accident occurs?

I reckon once our kids have spent the first couple of thousand hours of driver training by watching us from the passenger seat that it would have to take many more thousands of hours to unlearn what is so deeply ingrained...

Perfect conditioning really... and almost impossible to overcome in 100 hours of driver training.

 

 

[boingk]

Its why my kids (if/when that happens) will be on motorcycles first. 100 hours? What a joke.

 

- boingk

 

(post moderated due to language - Admin)

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Yeah 100 hours on L's whilst well-meaning is simply not practical and I suspect most would fiddle the numbers. It's getting to the point where kids will need to go O/S to get a licence then convert it here. Or not convert it.... thousands of immigrants and foreign students are now driving here long term on O/S licences. Including driving taxis.

 

On topic there was a note on the annual form about informing them if any endorsements were missing on your certificate (as I have but haven't bothered to correct). Could be poor record keeping or maybe an allowance for dodgy fax machines or instructors failing to send in all the necessary papers.

 

 

[boingk]

I fudged my number in highschool, and then you only had to have 50. I drove quite a lot, too, and had a fair few long trips but just couldn't realistically do 50 hours in the year.

 

As for RAA endorsements, I thought it was not in effect unless it was on your licence?

 

- boingk

 

 

[M61A1]

Its why my kids (if/when that happens) will be on motorcycles first. 100 hours? What a joke.- boingk

Sad thing is in QLD you can't get a motorcycle learners (under 25 ,I think) without having P's for a year. What you do if you never want to drive a car, I don't know.

 

 

[boingk]

Wow, that's terrible... never knew that at all.

 

- boingk

 

 

[winsor68]

Off topic... but...

 

My opinion is that it should be mandatory to have a motorcycle license before being allowed to apply for the car license... Would remove those who will never have the correct mental attitude from the gene pool, teach those who haven't given it much thought the consequences to themselves of not being a safe driver and generally improve anyone's driving skills.

 

I heard a story once about the head of safety at the car manufacturer Volvo being asked what he thought would be the most effective safety device anyone could fit to a vehicle... his reply was a 12 inch sharpened stake sticking out of the steering wheel pointed at the drivers face.

 

 

[M61A1]

Off topic... but...My opinion is that it should be mandatory to have a motorcycle license before being allowed to apply for the car license... Would remove those who will never have the correct mental attitude from the gene pool, teach those who haven't given it much thought the consequences to themselves of not being a safe driver and generally improve anyone's driving skills.

I heard a story once about the head of safety at the car manufacturer Volvo being asked what he thought would be the most effective safety device anyone could fit to a vehicle... his reply was a 12 inch sharpened stake sticking out of the steering wheel pointed at the drivers face.

Yeah, I figure put 'em on a moped for 12 months, they learn to ride with their head on a swivel or die, and parents may well learn to look out for smaller stuff fearing it may be their own kids.

 

 

[boingk]

Bingo.

 

- boingk

 

 

[nong]

Frankly, I am amazed that anyone would submit to a ramp check. If I was a "private flyer" type of member I would tell them to get out of my face.

 

Why the pathological desire to submit?

 

 

[facthunter]

Because it is easier to comply than the alternative. Offences of strict liability with penalties and fines are preposterous especially when some use the CARs which no one understands ( even lawyers). The vfg should be updated and be the definitive "user" document. Pilots only put up with this because they have to. Nev

 

 

[boingk]

I wasn't aware we had an option when presented with a ramp check.

 

At least, I certainly wasn't given the impression that I had one at Temora.

 

- boingk

 

 

[metalman]

Because it is easier to comply than the alternative. Offences of strict liability with penalties and fines are preposterous especially when some use the CARs which no one understands ( even lawyers). The vfg should be updated and be the definitive "user" document. Pilots only put up with this because they have to. Nev

It's a sad day when we'd for go our rights rather than " jeopardise " any perceived leniency , I know I'd do as I'm told rather than have the bastard5 start tallying up "penalty points", I've heard some good and bad stories so I guess it's a lottery!

 

 

[djpacro]

One day an instructor and student were ramp checked at Moorabbin as they were doing their daily inspection. No actions but some good reminders of docs to carry on a local flight.

 

Another instructor, with student, saw them as he walked up to the hangar to fly the sister ship. He decided to postpone the flight so walked back to the flying school and was not ramp checked. Perhaps a good strategy but otherwise I wouldn't recommend declining a ramp check.

 

 

[Tomo]

I drove quite a lot, too, and had a fair few long trips but just couldn't realistically do 50 hours in the year.

Interesting you say that, most people I know in the country have their 100hrs up in less than half a year. I got my 100hrs in 5 months.

 

In other news ~

 

Throw away the computer games and pull out more go-carts, let kids be kids! All starts at home I reckon, attitude, responsibility, respect, and honesty.