Lismore RV-12

[rgmwa]

Has there been any confirmation yet of the cause of the RV-12 test flight accident?

 

rgmwa

 

 

[ave8rr]

Would certainly be nice to know but guess like ALL other investigations involving RAAus registered aircraft where ATSB are NOT involved, then we will probably NEVER know.

 

 

[Blue Drifter]

The RAA has a tendency not to publish the accident reports from any accident. How are we suppose to learn from the mistakes of others so that history doesn't repeat itself.

 

 

[damkia]

This would be an excellent question to put forward to the new Tech Manager.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

I spoke with a few people at Wayne's Memorial, family and others close to the plane builder and who were close to witnesses to the crash. From the little information that was available -

 

Wayne had been a part of and/or closely observed all of the build of the kit, so he was well versed in what was under the bonnet, so to speak, and so it is doubtful that something didn't get bolted up, which ought to have been.

 

The take-off was apparently normal and so was the initial climb to about 200ft, then the plane went vertical or near-vertical and stalled. There is then some conflicting reports about whether it tail-slid into the ground or tail-slid and then dropped the nose vertical before impact. The latter seems more likely from the photos of the scene which show the wings' l/e into the ground, although they could have been moved during the fire response.

 

The engine was reported to be running on impact.

 

The fire was almost instantaneous and reportedly took 35 mins to extinguish. Perhaps it was extinguished 35mins after impact.

 

There was a post mortem examination which reportedly indicated no fire or smoke inhalation damage to the lungs indicating that the pilot was unconcious or deceased before the fire ignited.

 

I did not hear of any indication, post mortem examination or otherwise, to indicate any health issue or incapacitation was suspected but that does not rule out that possibility.

 

If I hear any more I'll post it here.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Thanks for that information Head in the Clouds, and again my sincere condolences to Wayne's family and friends.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[ausadvance]

I spoke with a few people at Wayne's Memorial, family and others close to the plane builder and who were close to witnesses to the crash. From the little information that was available .....

Thanks for doing such a good job explaining it to everyone mate!

 

 

[acro]

atsb is investigating.

 

On 24 March 2013, a Vans RV-12 amateur-built aircraft collided with terrain shortly after takeoff from Lismore aerodrome, NSW. The pilot and sole occupant was fatally injured.

 

The NSW police service is investigating this accident on behalf of the state Coroner. On 10 April 2013, investigating officers contacted the ATSB and requested assistance with the recovery of data from the aircraft's 'Dynon Avionics Skyview' electronic flight information system - components of which were recovered from the aircraft wreckage.

 

In order to protect the data recovered and sensitive information received from the NSW police, an external investigation was initiated under the provisions of the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003.

 

The investigation is continuing.

 

 

[VHRV12]

Does anyone have anything further about the investigation into this tragic accident?

 

 

[acro]

almost ready for release http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ae-2013-069.aspx

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

almost ready for release http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ae-2013-069.aspx

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed if you expect this to shed any light on the accident.

 

The ATSB are simply trying to retrieve data from the aircraft's EFIS and their report will most likely be exclusively for the police

 

 

[Methusala]

I don't think that anything can be learnt from this accident (Tragic accident). My personal opinion (I know every one has one...) and I was thinking about it today would lean towards pilot incapacitation. I did not know Wayne but I did deal with him buying new skins for the Thruster. He treated me very well and this high opinion of him is general among forum members. We lose some very great friends in our valiant struggle against the law of gravity. Don

 

 

[rankamateur]

We lose some very great friends in our valiant struggle against the law of gravity. Don

With all the discussion about improving safety and human factors, this reality still remains. You couldn't have summed it up better.

 

 

[VHRV12]

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed if you expect this to shed any light on the accident.The ATSB are simply trying to retrieve data from the aircraft's EFIS and their report will most likely be exclusively for the police

I agree Crezzi, this is my concern! There are currently about 40 people that will be making first flights in their RV-12's, and I would bet that most of them would like to know the outcome of the investigation. I would like to think that all the organizations involved in the investigation are doing their utmost to disseminate anything that enhances safety in the aviation community.

 

 

[rgmwa]

NTSB report on flight data recovered from the aircraft:

 

http://atsb.gov.au/media/4469487/AE-2013-069_Final.pdf

 

The cause seems clear based on the evidence, but we'll have to wait for the coroner's report for a formal verdict.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Guessing the trim was reversed on the EFIS?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes...............

 

 

[ave8rr]

I have the Dynon Skyview in our RV9A. The trim pos indicator is NOT displayed on the Skyview. Flap posn is.

 

The trim posn ind is a stand alone indicator.

 

 

[rgmwa]

The RV-12 has a stabilator so the trim tab is actually an anti-servo tab. The flight profile as I interpret it (lift off, fly level, accelerate, climb and stall/roll) is not what I would have expected to see on the first test flight of a new aircraft.

 

rgmwa

 

edit: corrected my thoughts on post climb sequence following a closer look at the curves.

 

 

[M61A1]

My interpretation of the flight path is somewhat different. Roughly, during the takeoff roll the trim is changing, airspeed increases, after liftoff, the angle of climb is steep, and airspeed decays, stall warning activates. During the climb, the trim is changed in the opposite direction quickly. The climb peaks as airspeed drops, after the peak, the aircraft pitches down and rolls, after pitch down, the trim then begins to change back in the original direction. When the recording ends, the pitch attitude is almost level, but almost inverted.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Well, no doubt everyone will interpret the graphs differently, and I'm happy to defer to those who have a lot more experience in these matters than I do. I agree with the trim changes, but going by the altitude graph these appear to me to begin after the initial liftoff when the plane is flying level in ground effect and accelerating. Note also the comment in the text of the report that notes that the pitch attitude appears to be offset by around 12 deg. I assume that this means that where the pitch angle graph reads about 12 deg during the early part of the flight it should correctly read zero deg (ie. straight and level). The GPS flight path appears to show this. Anyway, I'll be interested to see what the final report says. Whatever the sequence of events and the reasons why they occurred, it's still a sad loss for the aviation community.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[ausadvance]

I personally am not going to try and interrupt the data. I dont know enough, nor do I have any experience translating things like this. Also to its a little to close to home to me to not form a bias opinion. I will let the professionals and those more experienced pass judgment on that.

 

However for what its worth, (while I know the people who where standing on the flight line, I havnt brought the subject up with them. so this isnt from them) I talked with a few others who witnessed the accident from the terminal (i was actually on the phone to someone who watched the incident at the time it happened so also got a live feed) that the plane remained on the ground and instantly went to a near vertical climb up on wheels off.

 

how accurate this is I'm not sure. but this is what i have heard from multiple sources from the minute it happened, and to my understanding has been the common general belief.

 

as i said i can not promise this is correct, i was not there, this is just what i understand to be the case, I only put it out there as i find it interesting that that is exactly what M6A1 read into it. so i thought i would put out there

 

 

[M61A1]

The data is fairly straight forward, but it only tells you what the flight path was, not why. I am not familiar in any way with the RV flight controls, and would not even hazard a guess as to what caused it to do that.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Striking singularity at first glance to the recent Lancair tragedy we had at YSHT.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

So are we looking at an incorrectly wired elevator trim switch, or actuator, acting in reverse causing an uncontrolled pitch up ?.........Surley if that was the case, there would still be enough control authority to overcome that ?..........And my thoughts are if that can get past Wayne and the builder, with so many RV-12s out there is it going to happen again, or has it already happened?..............thoughts?....................Maj........