Just a question?

[planet47]

On 1000ft agl circuits one commences turning crosswind at 500ft agl.

 

What height should a person doing 500ft agl circuits begin their turn onto crosswind bearing in mind that the circuit is tighter?

 

 

 

[king_daniels]

500 ft

 

daniel

 

 

[planet47]

Because???

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

On 1000ft agl circuits one commences turning crosswind at 500ft agl.

Why 500ft agl?

 

 

[king_daniels]

turning crosswind at 500ft agl, down wind at 500ft agl, bace at 500ft agl, should be set up for finel at 500ft agl then desend and land should be no circuits be low 500ft, the only time you can go below 500ft is when you are taking off or landing, and clear of built up areas with land owner blessing and you are low level indos.

 

Daniel

 

 

[djpacro]

Reg 166A

 

the pilot must maintain the same track from the take‑off until the aircraft is 500 feet above the terrain

[planet47]

Reg 166A

 

the pilot must maintain the same track from the take‑off until the aircraft is 500 feet above the terrain

 

I'm asking this question in relation to planes that are legally able to do 500ft circuits - ie those whose speed is less than 55knots.

 

 

 

[boingk]

Given that you are possibly going to reach 500ft by the end (or just past) of any reasonable length runway in such a slow aircraft, I'd say keep on with 500ft as your turning point.

 

- boingk

 

 

[corvairkr]

Because???

Because CASA says so

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/nta_poster.pdf

 

jason

 

 

[pudestcon]

I fly a Thruster, so 500' circuits. My understanding is that you must, no matter what your cruise speed, not change course after take off until you reach 500' AGL.

 

I fly all legs at 500' above airfield level until turning onto final, then start the descent down final. In less 'draggy' aircraft than the Thruster, descent may be started turning onto base.

 

Pud

 

 

[planet47]

Okay! Looking at "Because CASA says so http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/nta_poster.pdf" where does the diagram indicate that someone doing a 500ft circuit needs to stay upwind till they reach 500ft? All it indicates is the words "500ft circuit", "1000ft circuit" and "1500ft circuit". Pedestcon - if descent in less "draggy" aircraft can be started turning onto base why can't an aircraft that only climbs at 200ft per minute be permitted to climb to say 400ft on takeoff/upwind and then turn crosswind. I was under the impression that 500ft circuits were for aircraft with <55knot capability so that they could keep their circuits tight.

 

A high performance aircraft doing 1500ft circuits - at what point do they turn crosswind? Should an aircraft be able to conduct a circuit in a given time ie 1 crt = 6 minutes?

 

 

[pudestcon]

Pedestcon - if descent in less "draggy" aircraft can be started turning onto base why can't an aircraft that only climbs at 200ft per minute be permitted to climb to say 400ft on takeoff/upwind and then turn crosswind. I was under the impression that 500ft circuits were for aircraft with <55knot capability so that they could keep their circuits tight.

See planet47's post number 7 above.

 

Pud

 

 

[djpacro]

... where does the diagram indicate that someone doing a 500ft circuit needs to stay upwind till they reach 500ft?

I suggest that you read the regulation.

[motzartmerv]

Because turns below 500 ft agl are not permitted. Its in the regs, and its how we fly aeroplanes, regardless of the low cct requirement. Note, that any aircraft can perform a low level circuit, not just syb 55 kts aeroplanes.

 

Its a safety thing, thurns below 500 should be avoided because of the dangers associated with them.

 

 

[planet47]

4.3.2 During initial climbout, the turn onto crosswind should be made appropriate to the performance of the aircraft, but in any case not less than 500 FT above terrain

 

[CAR 166A(2)(f)] so as to be at circuit height when turning onto downwind.

 

4.3.3 Pilots may vary the size of the circuit depending on:

 

 the performance of the aircraft; or

 

 safety reasons; or

 

 in accordance with the AFM/POH requirements or company SOPs.

 

Thank you for your input above guys.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

"not less than 500 feet" .. It doesnt get any clearer than that. What are you looking for here? A legal loophole to turn below 500? In a high drag, low inertia aeroplane, its even MORE critical to keep turns at a safe height.

 

Circuit shape is not the same kettle of fish as turns under 500 feet. 4.3.3 1 2 and 3 are making reference to adjusting circuit shape due to terrain, performance etc. Its not saying its cool to "adjust" your crosswind turn altitude.

 

 

[planet47]

I am just asking a question - just like the title of the thread says. This question followed a general discussion I have had with other individuals and I thought this would be a reasonable place to ask a general question. I am NOT looking for a legal loophole NOR am I looking to have my jugular severed over the question either. I was under the impression that these forums were a place where I could ask such a question.

 

 

[Ryanm]

It's 500ft mate, regardless of what aircraft you are flying. That's what the regs say...

 

 

[metalman]

I am just asking a question - just like the title of the thread says. This question followed a general discussion I have had with other individuals and I thought this would be a reasonable place to ask a general question. I am NOT looking for a legal loophole NOR am I looking to have my jugular severed over the question either. I was under the impression that these forums were a place where I could ask such a question.

The question is fine , the way you seem to be looking for a way to justify low level stuff is what's getting some harsh replies. You say you've had a discussion with some other pilots, what was the outcome , did anyone know the regs regarding circuit heights AGL

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Nobodys goin for the jugular there old mate. The question was answered and you continued to question it. So the replies got more to the point without beating round the bush. You are correct, this is a place to pose your questions, and its also a place to express the opinion that the regs apply to all aircraft types. No nasty tone intended, its just you seemed to be having difficulty with that particular point. When a question is posed in the student thread and the replies add ambiguity it does nobody any good. The no turns below 500 is a staple rule that all Instructors would like to see followed, so therefor you should expect the hard line to be taken in the "student thread" when discussing such a safety 'basic'.

 

 

[flyerme]

Just wondering if you worded it wrong? Im thinking that what you may be getting at? is in your lil plane you only climb out at 200ft and so by the time you reach 500ft(on take off) you could be several kms out..right? regardless, the answer still remains 500ft...So unfortunately (and ive been there) you just have to indeed wait for them magic numbers on the alt(AGL 500ft) before turning, of coarse if your entering circuit in regular flight you would be in the same position (roughly) as any other LP aircraft IE. 500ft AGL circuit within a safe distance from the strip should the prop stop..

 

 

[Ryanm]

Not attacking anyone personally here, but it's a shame that these reg;s don't seem to be included in any training. Yes there is an "Air Law" exam, but it only really scratches the surface, to the point where a lot of pilots think that they are the only rules applicable. I would recommend going onto the CASA website and having a good look throughout. Also have a look at the AIP which basically explains the rules in a practical sense.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Motz is spot on, this is a student learning thread- ask the question, get a qualified, regulatory supported answer( eg DJP), some logical justification and move on.

 

To spend time looking for anything else is just looking for trouble...

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Not attacking anyone personally here, but it's a shame that these reg;s don't seem to be included in any training. Yes there is an "Air Law" exam, but it only really scratches the surface, to the point where a lot of pilots think that they are the only rules applicable. I would recommend going onto the CASA website and having a good look throughout. Also have a look at the AIP which basically explains the rules in a practical sense.

They are certainly included in ALL our students training, but this is not just at the discretion of the school, once embarking on the flight training journey ALL students need to immerse themselves in the required knowledge for safe flight- yes the school can guide you but it a two party tango, the student needs to devote personal, but guided energy to study and learning.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I know this doesn't apply to most rec flying but seeing as there are a few GA'ers in here, what about if ATC clear you for an 'early left turn'? What height can you turn at?

 

Beware trick question!