RAA Rego Number Groupings

[JUSTNUZZA]

Can someone please inform me when pronouncing the last four digits of your registration number on the radio can they be grouped together ? For example my Callsign is STRATUS 7357. Can it be pronounced STRATUS SEVENTY THREE FIFTY SEVEN or does it need to be STRATUS SEVEN THREE FIVE SEVEN ?

 

 

[boingk]

I believe it is the latter, each letter and/or numeral pronounced separately. We have a great local toungtwister - 5155!

 

- boingk

 

 

[Mriya]

Per RAAus Ops Manual Sect 4.02 either form is acceptable

 

However note the pronunciataion should be SEVen TREE FIFE SEVen if you choose to prenounce the numbers individually.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My problem is my ident as a Texan. Everyone hears Tecnam and expects to see a high- wing in the circuit. Doesn't matter how clearly I say it. But to answer your question, say the numerals separately. And five is fife and nine is niner.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Per RAAus Ops Manual Sect 4.02 either form is acceptable

I don't think this would be acceptable in GA so don't see how the ops manual can condone it. We all fly in the same air.

 

 

[nathan_c]

From memory, AIP states groupings are acceptable, I can find the reference when I get into work tomorrow if people wish, but seventy three fifty seven is fine I believe and is how I would say it talking to an aircraft. For example, if I was talking to QFA663, its said as Qantas six sixty-three.

 

 

[Mriya]

I don't think this would be acceptable in GA so don't see how the ops manual can condone it. We all fly in the same air.

This is an ICAO approved grouping according to the Ops Manual. In addition, of course the RAAus Ops manual has been approved by CASA, therefore it is a perfectly legitimate and approved option. However before people start adopting this standard, I'd warn you to read the limitations on how to deal with 'zeros' in the ICAO group form.

This issue was also covered some time ago in Sport Pilot magazine, where all ther rules were spelt out.

 

 

[nathan_c]

Remembered I had AIP on my computer, here is what is says. Reference is AIP GEN 3.4 20 and 21, paragraph starting 4.16. So you are fine to group your numbers.

 

4.16 Flight Number Call-signs -- Using Group Form

 

4.16.1 Within Australian airspace, “group form” is the preferred means of

 

transmitting call-sign/flight number. Group form should also be

 

used with military and other aircraft using a rootword call-sign with

 

numeric suffix.

 

4.16.2 Group form is the grouping of numbers into pairs, or where a

 

number ending in “00” is spoken in hundreds (refer para 4.17). For

 

three digit numbers, the second and third numbers are grouped.

 

Examples are as follows:

 

QLINK 122 QLINK ONE TWENTY TWO

 

QANTAS 1220 QANTAS TWELVE TWENTY

 

CAR 21 CAR TWENTY ONE

 

CLASSIC 12 CLASSIC TWELVE

 

VIRGIN 702 VIRGIN SEVEN ZERO TWO

 

BIRDOG 021 BIRDOG ZERO TWENTY ONE

 

4.16.3 Pilots and ATS should be aware that the preference to use “group

 

form” does not invalidate any transmissions made in conventional

 

formats. However, to retain the integrity in the communication

 

between ATS and operators, the identification format used should

 

be consistent.

 

4.16.4 A pilot not using “group form” in establishing communication, but

 

subsequently addressed by ATS in this format, should adopt the

 

use of “group form” for the remainder of the flight in Australian

 

airspace.

 

4.16.5 There is no additional abbreviated form when using flight number

 

call-signs. The airline designator and all digits of the call-sign,

 

including leading zeros, must be pronounced

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Thanks for your help Nathan and Myria. I think 4.21.1 d also sums it up.

 

4.21.1 When establishing 2-way communications and for subsequent communications on any frequency, Australian registered aircraft

 

must use one of the following callsigns:

 

a. for VH-registered aircraft, the last 3 characters of the

 

registration marking (eg VH-TQK “TANGO QUEBEC KILO”);

 

or

 

b. the approved telephony designator of the aircraft operating

 

agency, followed by the last 3 characters of a VH registration

 

marking (eg “QLINK TANGO QUEBEC KILO”); or

 

c. the approved telephony designator of the aircraft operating agency, followed by the flight identification (eg “VIRGIN EIGHT

 

FIFTY SIX DELTA”); or

 

d. for recreation-category aircraft, the aircraft type followed by

 

the last 4 characters of the aircraft’s registration number (eg “JABIRU THIRTEEN FORTY SIX”).

 

 

[metalman]

My problem is my ident as a Texan. Everyone hears Tecnam and expects to see a high- wing in the circuit. Doesn't matter how clearly I say it. But to answer your question, say the numerals separately. And five is fife and nine is niner.

Niner! I know it's the right way but I've always had trouble saying it, all the rest I do fine but niner ,,I don't know, sounds a bit TopGun, :-)

 

 

[turboplanner]

I don't think this would be acceptable in GA so don't see how the ops manual can condone it. We all fly in the same air.

Agree - another job for RAA to clean up - radio training seems to be WAY below par, and the one who can't understand you could be a Dash 8 coming your way.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Agree - another job for RAA to clean up - radio training seems to be WAY below par, and the one who can't understand you could be a Dash 8 coming your way.

It's not only a job for RAA, there are plenty of GA pilots that seem to think the aim is to fit in as much as they can in as short of a transmission as possible and being understandable is not important at all....

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's not only a job for RAA, there are plenty of GA pilots that seem to think the aim is to fit in as much as they can in as short of a transmission as possible and being understandable is not important at all....

Based on what you're hearing you may be right; someone posted their flight on here the other day, and their own transmissions were great, then a GA came on and I couldn't understand a word he said.

 

However, it could also be that the aircraft you've notice are flying in from City airfields where you have to talk at 200 words per minute to get your call in, and other pilots familiar with standard phrasing and procedures can identify what's being said instantly from the syllables and cadence if the reception isn't 100%.

 

Country pilots will always have trouble picking up what city pilots say because of the speed, but if they practice correct phraseology they'll miss a lot less, and this applies both on RA and GA.

 

However what I was talking about was the likes of "Are yous going to Avalon next year?"

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

JUSTNUZZA you are right to group the numbers, ATC prefer it that way and it usually sounds better, refer to AIP for terminology and phraseology they are your best reference for sure. When it comes to radio transmissions GA, RAA, hanger, gliders hot air balloons all need to use the same phraseology. When talking to ATC you can use ultralight in place for your type if you think you may be mistaken for something completely different like in the Texan / Tecnam instance, we ( ATC) will work it out. If ever in doubt, "say again" always works.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

JUSTNUZZA you are right to group the numbers, ATC prefer it that way and it usually sounds better, refer to AIP for terminology and phraseology they are your best reference for sure. When it comes to radio transmissions GA, RAA, hanger, gliders hot air balloons all need to use the same phraseology. When talking to ATC you can use ultralight in place for your type if you think you may be mistaken for something completely different like in the Texan / Tecnam instance, we ( ATC) will work it out. If ever in doubt, "say again" always works.

ACKNOWLEDGE

 

 

[68volksy]

It's not only a job for RAA, there are plenty of GA pilots that seem to think the aim is to fit in as much as they can in as short of a transmission as possible and being understandable is not important at all....

I'm always getting clipped over the ear by instructors for talking too fast. And i'm always first to complain when some amateur numpty blurts out the call so fast i can't understand it! Sitting back and listening though it's a very easy way to sort the "men from the boys". All the young kids (i'll include myself in that bunch :) ) tend towards blurting out their calls in a rushed panic. The more panicked they are the faster the calls! Then you'll hear the 10,000-hour plus instructors and the pilots who've been around for a while talking at such a perfect pace you never miss a single thing they're saying and they seem so calm and relaxed!

 

Personally don't care how people announce their call sign so long as it's done at a pace that's easily understood and in a calm and relaxed manner.

 

 

[boingk]

Then you'll hear the 10,000-hour plus instructors and the pilots who've been around for a while talking at such a perfect pace you never miss a single thing they're saying and they seem so calm and relaxed!

Bingo. No point in rushing a call or making it unintelligible.

 

Personally I like rocking my smooth 'radio voice'... you've been listening to one-oh-two point five... boingk eff-em...

 

:D

 

- boingk