What would you do?..Put it down to Experience??

[Guest Guest]

What would you do?

 

Yesterday, being a great day; I went for a local jaunt.Rang a friend, yep, include him in too. Meet at local airstrip where we hangered our planes.

 

While we were getting organized, a local “croppie†came in using RWY 36. Straight in approach from the south where he was working.

 

So we 2 RAAus’s got ready, did our calls, and off we went using RWY 36.

 

Only slight N breeze 3-5kts on the nose.Good local sortie, caught up with another Kitfox, and we all headed back to our base to chat n coffee. I was leading the way back. Did a 5 mile call. Then the others did theirs in turn. Passed over a nearby strip and checked his sock.. yep still slightly a Northerly.

 

Called joining downwind RWY 36.. Then turning base 36. All doing the full correct and full calls. And just after me turning onto final, the croppie pulled out on to the strip. I called a go around and just went out to the dead side of the cct, and went around again.

 

3 aircraft in the cct… This joker then backtracked and then used RWY 18 so he could just fly back out to the south to where he is working. This has happened before at this strip, but the first time to me.. I know this joker has a radio, and can use it when he wants to.

 

To me; this is a classic display of bad airmanship. This GA businessman thinks he is working and more important than the RAAus factor having a social flutter.

 

Is the VH registered aircraft required to have and to use a radio? Should I take some action? What would youdo?

 

 

 

[Wilfred]

Perhaps a upgraded aircraft would make you more compteitive in the circuit.

 

one of these maybe??

 

http://members.cox.net/sadlerair314/piranhaman.pdf

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Peter

 

We have potentially the same situation in Griffith which can be a busy AG plane and helicopter base plus RPT,ambulance and various other courier services besides the charter and training work by the aero club which handles GA and RAA aircraft.

 

My last experience of it when flying the Jabiru was the "croppy" pilot calling me up when I had just turned final for 06asking if he could take off - he was waiting off the strip near point C on the ERSA drawing with engine running - I said no - he acknowled this message andwaited till I landed and had cleared the strip via the taxiway marked A opposite the passenger terminal. So this guy knows how to use a radio and does. By the time I could look back to see where he was up to he had gone. My circuits were probably pretty wide and tenative at that time.

 

On reflection later, I think he could have easily taken off and cleared the runway before I would have rounded out. They have big engines and usually have pretty impressive takeoff ability even when fully loaded. They alsooften fly out of Griffith empty (no load) and load up with chemical or fertiliser or seed on a strip near where they are working.

 

The other aspect of flying at Griffith is that most people on the airfield on a Friday afternoon have a few thirst quenches at the Griffith Aero Club. This allows all local flyers whether they be students GA, or student RAA, plus the Ag operators pilots and crew, the local airfield workshop mechanics, Ag helicopter crews and the Aero Club instructors to talk to one another which is a great help in improving relations and sorting out problems or just general bull yarns. Even local GA pilots not flying on the day often come out from town or their farms on a Friday evening!

 

Regards

 

 

[PaulN]

Hi Lucy,

 

It sounds like you were not the only one to witness the incident. If I were in your position I'd be making every effort to take up the issue with the pilot concerned face to face with the support the others. This for the purpose of consultation, not confrontation. If as a result of this he agrees to be more courteous and airman like, good. In the unlikely event that he chooses to continue with his apparent arrogance then you (with your witnesses) owe it to him and the rest of our flying community to report his antics to the authority in the hope of avoiding something worse happening in the future.

 

There is no room or reason in our airspace for GAvs RAA contest, nor should there be any commercial vs recreational antagonism. We all share the same glorious Oz airspace and have all earned our right to be up there. As Ross has already shared, networking, courtesy and respect for each other goes a long way. If anyone thinks he has more right to be there than another flyer, then he doesn't deserve to share the privilege of flight.

 

My $0.02 worth,

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

You will find it difficult to take any action with the authorities.Carriage and use of a radio is not a requirement in GA, same as UL and the aircraft may not have one. "See and be seen." You mention that the wind was only 3-5 knots. This may have been the case up high, but down low it may have been light and variable and favoured either direction. If an aircraft pulls out to back-track and or take off he needs to look out the window and if he sees someone, presumably he won't enter the runway. It is indeed a fact that if an aircraft is on final, he (the a/c on final) has wright of way, however if an aircraft enters the runway either intentionally or not, he then has right of way as he can't get out of the way and the aircraft on final can't land on top of him.

 

From experience, an agricultural aircraft might do a low level circuit anyway, say early left turn at 100ft - 200ft so there was probably no reason for him to actually backtrack the runway as you have said, other than a slight southerly. An all-up-weight crop duster would usually takeoff into the wind whenever possible.

 

A polite word to the pilot would be the most appropriate in this instance. Simple communication would be most effective course of action. When you make "complaints" to the authorities you must realise that you are flying potentially flying for fun and their flying is for their business, their livelihood, mortgages and family. You need to realise that any complaint you make against the pilot could see him grounded for 28 days minimum with a loss of income and potentially his business. That's why communication is of the utmost in these instances; that being said I don't condone the use of abbreviated procedures for business / charter aircraft.

 

Best off with a quiet chat afterwards.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

The bloke did the wrong thing, he might not have even seen you. Bad airmanship full stop.

 

The last time I came through Griffith I got run off the taxiway by a 502, same thing I called taxing he was on a close downwind. I held at the taxiway he just turned off and kept on coming, I had to taxi off the side of the taxiway. There is no excuse for this sort of behaviour.

 

Having said all that there's nothing worse than doing a 10 hour day then coming back in to some Airliner or Aeroclub bloke doing a 5 mile, 10 minute circuit. If you doing say 40 loads for the day off an Aifield, if your held up 5 minutes each load it can make a big difference in the days output. You still have to work in with other folks though.It's just good manners to all work together. Don't do circuits way out and work in with people.

 

Some of the Airlineblokes tell lies around here, they think it lets them in first if their estimate is before yours. I've held short on the taxiway waiting for a Saab for5 minutes to fly a "5 mile final". I would have backtracked, taken off and been3 miles out by the time these bastards had landed.

 

Working all day every day in Aircraft doesn't give you the rite to do anything you want.

 

How many calls do you people make? With 3 Aircraft all doing 5 calls per circuit can get a bit overcrowded. The only manditory calls are 15 inbound (or if closer) and joining the circuit. Maybe he called taxing to backtrack and was overtransmitted?

 

Go and have a yarn with him, most AG blokes like anything that flys and are usually easy to get on with.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

"The bloke did the wrong thing, he might not have even seen you."

 

- It is reality that it's not a crime to miss seeing another aircraft in the circuit. I do it often and sometimes it would be impossible to see aircraft in the circuit due to distance.

 

Unless it happens all the time, or more than once, you should really just chalk it up to experience.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find any aviatior GA or otherwise who would KNOWINGLY enter and backtrack a runway when an aircraft is on fina - think about it.

 

 

[Ed Herring]

( What would you do? )

 

I would definately speak very kindly to the Pilot / Operator or both if that is the case. We all make mistakes at times and most of us appreciate being told if we are approached in the right manner. ( ok so i am admitting i make the occasional mistake, i am just lucky i dont make many ) We too work with Ag Planes at our local airfield and they work in with us as we with them. In our case it is Comunicationthat we manage well. Perhaps in your case he has a problem with that. The rules of the Sky apply to all regardless of what aircraft we fly, commercial or private recreational and the sooner we all play by the same rules the better. If we all do the right thing, then thats a great start.

 

 

[Guest Stkin0]

VH AIRCRAFT USING RADIO, not sure.

 

but if you go to http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/contacts.htmand then click other enquires, send them a e-mail and with in about 4 days

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

It is absolutelyNOT mandatory to use or posess a radio if the airfield is a CTAF, versus a CTAF® which requires radio.

 

The same rules apply for GA and UL.

 

 

[Captain]

It is absolutelyNOT mandatory to use or posess a radio if the airfield is a CTAF

But it should be.

 

G'day Clem. How's it going?

 

IMHO, radio is one of the most useful proximity and awareness devices if used well. Maybe even better thanyour peepers in some cases.

 

How anyone could contemplate flying to or ina busy CTAF without a radio is beyond me. Captain