Starting battery and solenoid

[Old Koreelah]

Forums are a great source of advice, but the quality is variable.

 

I use a Decca Absorbed Glass Battery to crank my 2.2 Jab engine. Now the second one has failed after only 3 years. I hate being forced to do dangerous things like jump-start from my car. I need reliablity.

 

My local auto electrician says AGM batteries were really meant for caravans and campers, not cranking, and that a Gel battery may be better. Any suggestions?

 

Lithium Ion sounds enticing, but I would rather wait till they are well tried.

 

While trouble shooting this latest battery failure the solenoid stuck on- pretty dangerous when she cranks as soon as you connect the battery! (I had installed that solenoid after a fellow aviator had advised it was heaps better than the standard Jabiru one.) The sparky pronounced it a good quality item, but not designed for cranking. I re-installed the original Jabiru solenoid, which tested in excellent condition.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Going on the current battery tech now 3 years is probably the norm the manufacturer builds them with inbuilt obsolescence otherwise they would go broke

 

 

[frank marriott]

I use Odyssey - They cost around $300 - but I have had 5 years trouble free, 230 next door 6. Appears the initial cost pays off in the long run.

 

The adds infer 8 to 12 years????? That sounds a bit optimistic to me - see what others have experienced.

 

500hrs original solenoid

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have just purchased a Shorai battery it is 24 amp hour 360 CCA they are quoting the 6 year or so mark. it weighs only around 2 kg. They are using them in motorbikes and also aircraft in the USA. They are the S04 technology

 

 

[rankamateur]

I have just purchased a Shorai battery it is 24 amp hour 360 CCA they are quoting the 6 year or so mark. it weighs only around 2 kg. They are using them in motorbikes and also aircraft in the USA. They are the S04 technology

Isn't this going to muck up your newly refined CofG, and may do the same in other installations if it is used to replace a traditional lead acid type battery.

 

 

[biggles5128]

I use Odyssey - They cost around $300 - but I have had 5 years trouble free, 230 next door 6. Appears the initial cost pays off in the long run.The adds infer 8 to 12 years????? That sounds a bit optimistic to me - see what others have experienced.

500hrs original solenoid

I have an Odyssey in my 230 which is 6 years old and not a hint of problem, but as with most batteries it will just die suddenly one day.

 

 

[facthunter]

Cranking Amps are everything. Batteries die more in winter as a frost knocks them around. Keep them fully charged (but not overcharged). I had two german batteries OEM that went 11 years starting a diesel motor in a van. If some can do it why can't others? Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thanks for the replies, people. I was quite happy with the light weight (3kg) of my recently deceased Decca AGM battery, but the the Shorai site claims some very impressive CCAs for batteries that are even lighter.

 

The Decca's 120 CCA were just adequate, as long as I did a lot of hand-cranking to loosen up the engine. A few more CCAs would be better.

 

A lighter battery would be great, and no threat to CoG- just carry more tools, water, etc to make up the difference.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

A problem may be that the charging voltage of the Jab series engines is somewhat on the low side. Those Odessey ( AGM. "Gel Mat" ) batteries are supposed to be charged at 14 + volts. SOME Jab engines just dont charge that much. (Just above 12v if you are lucky) Consequently the battery aquires a low volt memory and a shortened life. I have used , with GREAT success a battery manufactured by "Long River" similar sizes as Odessey. Half the price.....The 625 version swings my 0-200 hot or cold quite easily (With a non use period of 5 months!) If it ever fails I will go with LIFE04 type. Now about 250 dollars...(and rising) Correction ......it's FULL RIVER

 

 

[facthunter]

The charging voltage for a rated 12v lead acid battery is 14.2 Volts. If your alternator supply (rectified) is lower than that you won't get full charge. If it is higher the battery life will be reduced and the battery will need frequent topping up of the electrolyte level with pure water only. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

A problem may be that the charging voltage of the Jab series engines is somewhat on the low side. Those Odessey ( AGM. "Gel Mat" ) batteries are supposed to be charged at 14 + volts. SOME Jab engines just dont charge that much. (Just above 12v if you are lucky) Consequently the battery aquires a low volt memory and a shortened life. I have used , with GREAT success a battery manufactured by "Long River" similar sizes as Odessey. Half the price.....The 625 version swings my 0-200 hot or cold quite easily (With a non use period of 5 months!) If it ever fails I will go with LIFE04 type. Now about 250 dollars...(and rising) Correction ......it's FULL RIVER

Now that's interesting, Geoff. It may explain the short lives of otherwise good batteries. I will investigate your Full River battery.

 

 

[billwoodmason]

Odessy batteries crank my J230 better than any other lead acids I,ve seen - at $260 odd dollars they are the best value for money considering their life span. P S the Cold Start kit for Jab motors looks a real winner worth investing in.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Battery charge volts when the engine is running should really be no more than 14.5 volts otherwise you will overcharge and overheat your battery. Ambient heat in the engine compartment is also another killer of batteries. Steve the Shorai is not for the aircraft starting but for my CPAP machine and also to charge all my portable devices then when I am flying I plug it into a anderson socket arrangement I will have in the front to keep the battery charged while flying it will be used to start the aircraft if my normal battery goes flat or falls over. The Shorai will mount in the front of the cabin under the pax position or in front of the joystick area I have decided yet and will plug into this nice socket with protective front spring loaded cover this gives me access to power as well that is on the line side of the aircraft electrical system so the master does not have to be on. The only thing with the Shorai is you do need to keep the battery balance charged. The little connector in the middle at the top of the battery is for this so if you haven't got a battery charger for A123 cells then you need to buy their charger. I have those type chargers here so I just made up the lead and balance charge the battery with it

 

Odessey batteries and similar are a pure lead battery and weigh a ton. The one I had weighed 15kg for the same size as this Shorai that weighs a touch over 2 kg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Odessy batteries crank my J230 better than any other lead acids I,ve seen - at $260 odd dollars they are the best value for money considering their life span. P S the Cold Start kit for Jab motors looks a real winner worth investing in.

Thanks, fellas. I will phone Jabiru tomorrow to find out more. (My cold starting problems disappeared when I followed the advice of the late Bushman (?) and drilled my choke hole out to 1 mm.)

 

 

[frank marriott]

A problem may be that the charging voltage of the Jab series engines is somewhat on the low side. Those Odessey ( AGM. "Gel Mat" ) batteries are supposed to be charged at 14 + volts. SOME Jab engines just dont charge that much. (Just above 12v if you are lucky) Consequently the battery aquires a low volt memory and a shortened life. I have used , with GREAT success a battery manufactured by "Long River" similar sizes as Odessey. Half the price.....The 625 version swings my 0-200 hot or cold quite easily (With a non use period of 5 months!) If it ever fails I will go with LIFE04 type. Now about 250 dollars...(and rising) Correction ......it's FULL RIVER

Unless there is a fault (or overloaded maybe) the charging voltage on a Jab in cruise should be 14.5 volts. The half a dozen I have flown all charge at this voltage anyway.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

seen a few with 12v at 2000rpm.................They have to taxi with everything off except the radio (and /or fuel pump)................but they're ok at 2800rpm. trouble is it's a motorcycle alternator. Needs lots of revs to make decent power. At 7 or 8000 rpm they are the ducks guts..

 

 

[dazza 38]

My Yuasa motorbike battery (in my bike) is still going strong and it is 10 years old.

 

 

[frank marriott]

".They have to taxi with everything off except the radio (and /or fuel pump"

 

Geoff

 

Interesting and I have heard this before so it is not a new observation. I can only go from my own experience, and from start up to shut down I have 2 VHFs, transponder, GPS, EFIS, strobe and landing light (when other traffic around) and to date have not experienced a problem????

 

I do not have (and would prefer a centre zero amp meter) so at taxi RPM the battery may well be providing more then the alternator.

 

The big glass screens my well consume more power by I have no experience with them.

 

All I can say in 500hrs the standard system works for me - unable to provide any more detail.

 

 

[facthunter]

A voltmeter doesn't give you much indication of output or drain. Add a zero centre and + - scale ammeter which is better for knowing what is going on.( + - 20 amps is probably enough.) You can't put your starter circuit through , obviously. Pumps and landing lights are probably the biggest drains on the system. nev

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Out of the many 2.2's and 3.3's I have seen and measured there were four that stood out as low charging jobbies... I asked Jabiru about it and they said "some do that, turn everything off whilst taxiing except pump and radio" As soon as the take-off starts you are OK and run what you want...two of those motors were brand new...It's not all of them, many are just fine. The difference is ( I think ) in windings tolerances and permanent magnet differences. If you get a "stack up" of end of tolerances you get low voltage. Or if lucky you get a good charge at lower revs....Although a volt meter is not the same as an ammeter is tells a similar story, just not as quickly....or as accurately...As long as you use the same method to measure all the time you can arrive at the same conclusions.....

 

PLUS quote" My Yuasa motorbike battery (in my bike) is still going strong and it is 10 years old." Answer? Yes of course it is, that's what I have been saying , your bike charges like a wounded bull.................Yuasa are great batteries.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Yuasa are great batteries.

Well the Japanese OEM ones are, usually good for seven or eight years, then buy one out here to replace it in the same application and it will last about three month out of waranty.

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

Another thumbs up for Odyssey. I got sick of replacing my ride-on mower wet battery every couple of years, so replaced it with the 8 year old Odyssey out of the aircraft (having never been charged other than in flight) and it continues to perform flawlessly in its new role. $230 well spent for a new aircraft battery, in my opinion.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Another thumbs up for Odyssey. I got sick of replacing my ride-on mower wet battery every couple of years, so replaced it with the 8 year old Odyssey out of the aircraft (having never been charged other than in flight) and it continues to perform flawlessly in its new role. $230 well spent for a new aircraft battery, in my opinion.

I hope your new one lasts as well as the old one or you might have to move it back.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Well the Japanese OEM ones are, usually good for seven or eight years, then buy one out here to replace it in the same application and it will last about three month out of waranty.

My bike is a KTM made in Austria. Battery world quoted a price of over $2oo for the same battery. (I can not remember exactly the price maybe $230 or something like that) They did say however, there is a cheaper version for about $120 but they said don't those ones as the battery will only last between 1 to 2 years.

They tested my existing battery and said that it is fine. Plus I can kick start it if I have too. (although it is a LC4 engine with a Left side kick starter)

 

 

[Dieselten]

The current Jabiru starting-battery is the Odyssey PC625 AGM (absorbed glass-mat) sealed lead-acid unit which can be had for something in the vicinity of $320-350. Jabiru's alternator is simple but not the best for producing current or voltage, especially at lower RPM. IMO it needs a separate automotive-style alternator-regulator operating from a belt-drive or directly via the splines at the rear of the crankshaft.

 

For ease of starting I recommend weekly use of a good lead-acid battery trickle-charger, and fitting the Jabiru ground-power receptacle if it is not already fitted. In other words, keep the starting-battery charged at all times.

 

At my local airfield there is a PC625 battery available with a set of leads for the Jabiru ground-power socket which usually gets pretty much any Jab started if it is a little "reluctant" first thing in the morning. Another useful little wrinkle for easy starting on cold mornings is to pour a mugful of boiling water over the carburettor.

 

BTW, Yuasa do make a great battery, but not for the Boeing 787! Their big marine Nickel-Cadmium cells in particular were matchless for performance and ruggedness.