AlfaRomeo Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 ....ask your board rep........Reminds me of a dog returning to its vomit. Very colourful but not assisting the discussion I fear. Why?Why isn't the Association communicating publicly with its members? What is there to hide? Perhaps that's the question members should ask their Board Rep? Why is the Board not communicating with the members despite what was promised at the EGM last February, almost 6 months ago? If even only a few hundred annoyed their Board Rep with that question they just might get the message and get off their butts and DO something about it. What I was trying to say was wishin' and a hopin' that they might post something on here is nothing that's happened with any regularity. My impression is that where the previous Exec didn't want to tell us anything and believed we didn't want to know this Exec is not trying to hide stuff but they have a long way to go to get a pass mark. I am sure the Treasurer is pretty busy trying to get a Financial Statement published in accordance with the Constitution Rule 15 (iv) i.e. within 30 days from the end of the Financial Year and that of course is tomorrow. That was only ever achieved once - in January 2012. Our new President has also got his hands full with CASA, the SMS, Ops Manual and coming up to speed on all the things the previous Exec kept him and the rest of the Board and all of us in the dark about. It has only been 20 days - give him a break for goodness sake! Our Secretary is doing what he has for the last two years - either sweet fanny adams or something Machiavellian. Try to remember his "brilliant" performance when he comes up for re-election next year. Mislead the AGM in 2012 on number of members. Mislead the February EGM with number of aircraft in the rego backlog and the number of legal matters RA-Aus was facing. I wasn't at the Natfly GM but the minutes don't seem to feature any apologies from him.
AlfaRomeo Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 DWF, you might be surprised that I gave this post of yours a "thumbs up". Good questions all and thanks for asking them the way you did. I'll try to explain a little better. So have you obtained any useful information or just passed the time of day? On a couple of occasions the GM asked me to research some issues for him related to the AGM, elections and some other matters. On a couple of other occasions, I was offering to help in areas where I felt I had some useful to contribute. I have been working with him and the Constitution Review Committee and the Restructure Committee. What I learned from these interchanges is that we are lucky to have a smart and resourceful GM with good interpersonal skills and a very good grasp of the situation. You could say his situation awareness gained in a short time is exceptional. I also learned that he is working crazy hours and being very effective but is being swamped by a huge "to do" list left over from years of inaction and misfires. We need to hope that he can keep the effort going because this job would break a lot of people. Why not? Too busy to recruit one [Admin Mgr]? Not considered necessary by the board? I don't know how to answer that because I don't know whether what I know should be kept confidential. On that basis I have to err on the conservative side. I think it would be fair to say it is an unselfish action by the GM. Surely a Board member could spare some time to post some plans and information on the web site. Most people could be trained to do it in an hour or so and it could be done from the comfort of their own home if necessary. I suggest you put that question to Ed Smith an ex WA rep and WA rep elect. Ed knows the ropes already and is in a good position to answer that one. I don't know if the other Ed (Herring) knows how to do it or whether he would be willing. I look to my three NSW/ACT reps and I can assure you that such a thing would be beyond two of them and the third you would not want him to attempt it. And then you can scratch the Tassie Rep from that race OMG. Truth is we have the Board we deserve because for the last 10 years we all just wanted to go flying. And anyone who tried to do anything about it just got bagged out and called a whining hound. I am confident that the GM and his staff are doing their best to extricate the Association from the mess we have been landed in, however there is very little information available to support this confidence. Maybe it is more hope than confidence. I have zero doubts about the effort being put in. I still have grave doubts that particularly the Rego debacle is still not getting the massive resources from the Board that are required to fix it quickly. I believe they are too conservative in their approach and that a big, tough nut requires a sledgehammer to fix it. In WA we do not currently have a Board member! We are currently receiving the same amount of information from our Board member as we have had for the last 2 years. As above, Ed would be available now and here's your chance to let him know what you want from your Rep and the Board. If members were kept informed of plans and progress via the web site, magazine and possibly emails the Board and staff would not have their time taken up by being pestered with queries from concerned members (as would be the case if we all followed your advice and made the call) and they would be able to get on with the important tasks they have been paid/elected to do. A few minutes a week devoted to keeping members informed would save everyone a lot of time and angst. (And possibly considerably reduce the posts on this site. ) True as true can be. There is work going on to get the RPC/membership and Rego fully online and two-year memberships and Rego.
AlfaRomeo Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 Alfa,You and I know both too well that "calling your Rep" is NOT the way for the Board to communicate with the members as DWF has so eloquently stated above. Et tu bruteass? OK - no, it is not the way to run a 10,000 member organisation - did you miss that bit in my post #936? But, asking for info on a forum is not the best way to solve the problem either. If it takes 10,000 phone calls to persuade the Board that being telephoned by members is not a useful communications system then why not ring you rep(s)? Please do NOT perpetuate that BS line. What "Alfa" and "B/S" in the same sentence - impossible! A note a week on the web site (provided the note 'communicates') will keep the complaints at bay. As busy as they all are the most important thing is to keep the members abreast of the situation. I see the Tech Manager is doing this but the info is still not sufficient to understand if they are getting on top or just holding ground. There's not much indication that they are winning. A wall of silence just perpetuates the systemic issues within the RA Aus management. It is true that a lot of the problems we now face were created by a Board that operated in an information blackout. If we had heard of three CASA Audit failures we might not have been surprised when CASA pulled the rug out from under aircraft rego. We might even have had a word to our Board Reps to find out wtf they were/were not doing. Still, the new Exec, burdened as it is with a poorly performing Secretary (Mr Communication?) has only been in office for 20 days. Their first big test comes up tomorrow as to whether they achive or breach the Constitution requirement to report on finances within 30 days from end of year. If people here are prepared to put together a list of, say, five topics they would like reported on on the website each week I'd be happy to pass it on to Mark Clayton. Action speaks louder than . . . .
AlfaRomeo Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 OK Keith, I'm going to ignore my own advice to myself and go for one last attempt to reason with you. "Alfa old friend" is much preferable to your canine allusions of earlier even if you couldn't help playing the man and not the ball when you started to infer motives suggesting "egos" rather than logic were the reasons for our comments. . . . well it got your minds active. Nothing challenges my mind more than trying to fathom the impenetrable depths of your posts. I should enjoy the challenge but I clearly don't. Alfa you are pushing your mates brigade. This is a good example of where you don't challenge what was said, the logic or factuality you ascribe motive with no evidence offered. I can not get my head around why all the silence now. I have seen members on this forum saying that is OK, and last executive the silence was not OK for them. I can not figure that one. Must be which club they belong to. The mess we are in now was created by a club thing - the old boys club with jobs for the mates like Tizzard and Breitkreutz. It took probably 10 years to dig this hole and the old boys club has been in ascendency on the Board, or like Middo in management, over that time. Its members include Reid, Middo, Breitkreutz, Caban and more recent recruits Runciman and Herring. Governance/systems/processes who has worked with all that, that is warm fuzzy stuff which has come out of business schools which is to make things work better. Now look at some big companies what dramas they have, their reason for trading at times is secondary to governance/systems/processes. Look a little closer Keith - good governance is required by the Corporations Laws it is not an option. We are the shareholders of this Incorporated Association and the Board has a duty to follow our rules not make their own up as they go along. It involves following the rules laid down by the members in the Constitution. It involves obeying the Law. How I understand what we are hearing my interpretation, there are different political groups within the organisation with their own personal agendas and it is mates brigade again, so what is new. The biggest political group in RA-Aus at the moment would be the 700 or so aircraft owners whose aircraft are collecting dust in a hangar. Believe me they are not happy, Jan. There were more than 300 members who called the Board to account for their appalling performance in failing 4 CASA Audits and getting our Registration privilege withdrawn. But you want us to ignore that? Its all just "political"? If you can find anyone else to support that viewpoint let us know. There is news out there- * People do not go out of their way and do things incorrectly there heart and sole is in for correctness. So why the fuss? *Every one has good ideas, small modifications, plus a bit, minus a bit works a treat. *So why is this big noise about we are doomed. Egos. I completely agree with you Keith that the people we have been very critical of have not gone out of their way to make things worse. That they have achieved that while thinking they were doing their best demonstrates the level of their incompetence and the need for them to pursue other activities outside of RA-Aus administration. This is not about political groups or egos. It is about RA-Aus being all but destroyed by people who hung around at the top of RA-Aus long after passing their use-by date. The organisation that they may have served well in the past simply out grew their ability to manage it. The results of that are the lamentable situation that RA-Aus finds itself in. Have a look around Keith, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and nobody is enjoying having to swallow this rotten pie. 5 1 2
Guest Andys@coffs Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 OMG...Keith did you really suggest Ego for those that suggested all is not well with RAAus?????? I cant believe that in a moment of lucidity you posted that!!! Was it not you but a few weeks ago that suggested Death, Devastation and CASA all rolled into one was about to descend like the sword of Allah on us all as a result of the board not giving your mates Ed and Myles a free pass from the constitution? Talk about rewriting history....that was magic.....but then I might have misinterpreted your post....I wasn't on whatever you were when you wrote that! Andy
turboplanner Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 I don't know Myles Breitkreutz from a bar of soap, but I do know fairness, and this thread I'd judge is one of the most disgusting ever to appear on Recreational Flying. The man gave up his position on the board to do a job he saw as urgent; I agree with him. No one seems to have bothered with what his present position might be; we only have silence to tell us that. On the bright side this thread has shown us who NEVER to elect to a board member position. 1
DWF Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 I was going to ask - "What has happened to Mr Breitkreutz?" "Did he ever take up the job of STCC?" If so (or not), there have been roars of silence regarding the SMS and other STCC responsibilities. Is anyone doing the job? DWF
facthunter Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 I have never come across anything to justify any questioning of Myles' integrity. I would imagine being busy and recognising the complexity of the situation communicating, anything in detail would require a lot time and care. Time is in short supply. My approach to the current situation would be to involve CASA as much as possible and get extra staff . The extra cost will just have to be accepted as where we are at Some assurance of cooperation (CASA's attitude) would need to be forthcoming or you are working away with no real assurance of success and support..Nev 2
dodo Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 The man gave up his position on the board to do a job he saw as urgent; I agree with him. He gave up his position on the board to pursue other opportunities. The position was offered to him a day or two later. As to no information, it is disappointing that we don't know what is happening regarding the SMS implementation, but consistent with the usual communications from the board. I imagine Myles is probably quite happy not to have to report what he is doing now - he is now just a member with no particular need to inform anyone of anything. dodo
Keith Page Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 OMG...Keith did you really suggest Ego for those that suggested all is not well with RAAus?????? I cant believe that in a moment of lucidity you posted that!!!Was it not you but a few weeks ago that suggested Death, Devastation and CASA all rolled into one was about to descend like the sword of Allah on us all as a result of the board not giving your mates Ed and Myles a free pass from the constitution? Talk about rewriting history....that was magic.....but then I might have misinterpreted your post....I wasn't on whatever you were when you wrote that! Andy Yes Andy it was me who mentioned CASA was looking at RAAus very closely, this was based on information supplied to me at the time, I do stress, do not get too comfortable because the because the threat has not gone away, could say, "In remission" As I am doing some away from home things I am missing a lot of information. Regards Keith Page
Keith Page Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 I don't know Myles Breitkreutz from a bar of soap, but I do know fairness, and this thread I'd judge is one of the most disgusting ever to appear on Recreational Flying.The man gave up his position on the board to do a job he saw as urgent; I agree with him. No one seems to have bothered with what his present position might be; we only have silence to tell us that. On the bright side this thread has shown us who NEVER to elect to a board member position. Turbo.. No truer words spoken, I can see who never to vote for as a board member. Ed and Myles saw the urgency for the SMS and did something but alas not the correct way according to the noisy majority. What gets me is the silence. I am away and can not check on some things to verify other than silence as to what else is happening. Regards Keith Page.
Keith Page Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Hi Alfa A novel is needed to reply to your 954 post of which I am not bothered to write, I have more important and constructive things to achieve. You have not answered any thing for me, you just had a good old dig at me, so what, some great experts have had a go at me over the years and I am still about. I can not get over how you are still making excuses for the silence, this is like race horse trainers, they are masters of excuses of why their horses do not win, to this day I have heard only once "My horse was not good enough" Just for you Alfa---Just another attempt for me. Interpret what I am saying not sit there and find all the little holes which you think are there. Regards Keith Page
fly_tornado Posted July 30, 2013 Author Posted July 30, 2013 I don't know Myles Breitkreutz from a bar of soap, but I do know fairness, and this thread I'd judge is one of the most disgusting ever to appear on Recreational Flying.The man gave up his position on the board to do a job he saw as urgent; I agree with him. No one seems to have bothered with what his present position might be; we only have silence to tell us that. On the bright side this thread has shown us who NEVER to elect to a board member position. If Myle's appointment was legitimate the board and members would have supported it. You seem to be the only one overlooking the poor governance and nepotism. I don't know what world Myles and Ed are living in thinking that they could pull off such a dodgy move. 1
Guest Andys@coffs Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Keith As I stated earlier Im well aware of what is happening with regard the SMS and how the board intends to deliver and what CASA think of that plan, and how they will audit progress. I'm not going to tell people what that plan is, firstly its not my place and secondly I want, as you do, to have that communicated to all members via an RAAus medium either on the RAAus website or the magazine, and if the latter then hopefully also on the website as well, magazines take too long for communications in this day and age. I wait in hope of an appropriate communication.....for well over a week now..... Andy P.S CASA........I don't see them ever going away.....ideally I do see them and RAAus closer than they have in the past....The ancient approach of forcing them to remain at a distance previously only introduced a now known to be false sense of security over the believed prettiness of the gold plating of the turd!
Captain Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Ed and Myles saw the urgency for the SMS and did something but alas not the correct way according to the noisy majority. KP. I assume that this section of your post indicates that you feel that Ed and Myles acted in the "correct way". Is that correct and do you?
turboplanner Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 If Myle's appointment was legitimate the board and members would have supported it. You seem to be the only one overlooking the poor governance and nepotism. I don't know what world Myles and Ed are living in thinking that they could pull off such a dodgy move. How about you back up that accusation with some facts. You're accusing him, back it up! 1 1
dodo Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 How about you back up that accusation with some facts. You're accusing him, back it up! Well...I'll say it again: Myles quit to pursue other opportunities. A couple of days later he got a job offer from RA, That's what the membership was told. Is it true? dodo 1
AlfaRomeo Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Qui Hi AlfaA novel is needed to reply to your 954 post of which I am not bothered to write, I have more important and constructive things to achieve. You have not answered any thing for me, you just had a good old dig at me, so what, some great experts have had a go at me over the years and I am still about. I can not get over how you are still making excuses for the silence, this is like race horse trainers, they are masters of excuses of why their horses do not win, to this day I have heard only once "My horse was not good enough" Just for you Alfa---Just another attempt for me. Interpret what I am saying not sit there and find all the little holes which you think are there. Regards Keith Page Amazing that you can draw so many conclusions based on not having read something. I had what I thought were the good manners to read what you wrote and give you a detailed, considered reply. Where are your manners? I am not a mind reader, I can only read what you write. If you want to supply an interpreter, I'd be happy to work with him/her. 1
turboplanner Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Well...I'll say it again:Myles quit to pursue other opportunities. A couple of days later he got a job offer from RA, That's what the membership was told. Is it true? dodo When Ed Herring had to do something fast, he realised there was someone with board member and SMS experience immediately available. 1 2
fly_tornado Posted July 30, 2013 Author Posted July 30, 2013 So Myles could have, as a board member, offered his expertise and knowledge for nix but chose to try and make a buck out of the situation? 1
turboplanner Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 So Myles could have, as a board member, offered his expertise and knowledge for nix but chose to try and make a buck out of the situation? You wrote the heading to this thread - he couldn't offer expertise. The RAA/CASA/ICAO requirement is a full time SMS Manager.
fly_tornado Posted July 30, 2013 Author Posted July 30, 2013 How would that have restricted Myles from contributing?
Guest Maj Millard Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 How would that have restricted Myles from contributing? It's a bloody full time job FT, plus some probabily. Not a part time occasional attendance thing like being a board member. Would you do it without being paid ?....I don't think so...............................Maj...
DWF Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Children! Children! Take a deep breath. I think that the way the STCC appointment was handled was clumsy, at best, and not in accordance with the principles of good governance. However that is all water under the bridge now. What is important is that there is someone now in that role and that there is a PLAN! You wrote the heading to this thread - he couldn't offer expertise. The RAA/CASA/ICAO requirement is a full time SMS Manager. TP I beg to differ! CASA, at least, do not necessarily require a "full time SMS Manager". The CASA document "SMS for Aviation – A Practical Guide 2 - Safety policy and objectives" states that: "Safety manager Appointing the right safety manager is critical. This role can make or break an SMS. A large organisation might have a dedicated safety department, led by a head of safety management. A medium-sized organisation might have a separate safety manager, possibly with a small number of staff, whereas a small organisation might just appoint a part-time safety manager, or add these duties to an existing role." While RAAus has a large number of members it only has a small number of staff and so could be considered a small organisation for the purpose of this debate (?). That said, I do feel, however, that RAAus should have a full time Safety Manager - at least until the SMS is sorted out. So, the question in my previous post has not been answered (although Andy seems to infer that there is one - or at least one is planned) - Does RAAus have a Safety Manager? If so, who is he/she? They are certainly not listed in the RAAus web site contact details - as they should be, IMHO! DWF PS: Sorry about the different font sizes. I still haven't got this editor fully figured out. 1 1
seqfta Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 G'day Folks A question if I may , Could someone advise me of the main segmented arena's available to RAA membership . To elaborate very broadly , I would have thought that the various RAA members would range from Hobbyist's/Pilots , Amature Aircraft Builders , Flying Schools , Executive/"Admin"/Board etc , Mechanical/Maintenance , Flying Clubs. Am I anywhere near the ball park ? Thanks All seqfta
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