turboplanner Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Just found this August 2010 release of the Sport Aviation Self-Administration Handbook http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/casa-releases-sport-aviation-handbook This leaves no doubt as to CASA's intentions. Given that current board members had their process of discovery last week, they would have been well advised for their own financial protection to download a copy of the document immediately and make sure they were complying with their statutory responsibilities as from last week. Also, if the CASA requirements are not already in the Constitution (sorry, I haven't had a chance to look) a change should be scheduled as quickly as possibly. Also, in terms of SMS compliance, RAA should include in its indoctrination and explanation of the CASA legislation and the board member's obligations as outlined in the handbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Urgent.. Emergency... I have just been talking to good flying buddy from the Sth. East of Qld. Just off the phone 5mins. ago. He had some very disturbing news. CASA has put to the board for the board to show cause why RAAus should not be closed down, the board has till tomorrow (Tuesday 18/06/13) to answer, as yet no board member has answered. """""""""""YES""""""""""" No board member has answered. Can not get over this, these board members on this forum are bragging what we should be doing etc. etc. and they are missing this one. Where is the truth now???, transparent eh???. Regards, Keith Page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Urgent.. Emergency...I have just been talking to good flying buddy from the Sth. East of Qld. Just off the phone 5mins. ago. He had some very disturbing news. CASA has put to the board for the board to show cause why RAAus should not be closed down, the board has till tomorrow (Tuesday 18/06/13) to answer, as yet no board member has answered. """""""""""YES""""""""""" No board member has answered. Can not get over this, these board members on this forum are bragging what we should be doing etc. etc. and they are missing this one. Where is the truth now???, transparent eh???. Regards, Keith Page. Ist ......... can anyone confirm whether this is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ist ......... can anyone confirm whether this is true? I heard something along those lines yesterday I think it will be at least partly true if not completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If it is true, then somebody else will have to take over, either CASA or another RAAO. There is no way that 10 000 people and 3500 aircraft will grounded for to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 IF people aren't told how would anyone know? Nothing new there. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryc Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This is not an emergency if it's true but one last chance to get it right. They had better not stuff this up if they do there will be no other chances. This is what I was talking about a couple days ago about getting two capable people to sit down and draw up a plan to get out of this mess. Casa has given them 24 hrs. The process is still the same but I would include legals as well and the ball should be already rolling. For those very skilled and switched on people on this forum [ seven in total ] it's time to offer yourselves as a caretaker admin in the short term until we have full elections and start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If it is true, then somebody else will have to take over, either CASA or another RAAO. There is no way that 10 000 people and 3500 aircraft will grounded for to long. Yep and the Titanic was said to be unsinkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Dazza.. Would you bet your house on that, because I wouldn't bet mine. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaRomeo Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sounds like Chinese whispers arriving here third or fourth hand and therefore impossible to know if this is correct. Indeed Keith, where is the truth? Do you have this from a Board Member or, perhaps your mate Ed? CASA looking at the way RA-Aus is being operated could well be considering their options. The facts would not be lost on them that RA-Aus is not well run by the majority of the current and recent Boards. The Board was dragged by the members to an extraordinary General Meeting four months back to account for their governance and communication failures and yet we have just witnessed the biggest governance failure ever (President Ed acting in defiance of the Board) and communication failures like Myles resigns to pursue other opportunities" when it really was to accept a gift of the STCC position from his mate Ed. And now you tell us that RA-Aus is on the brink of being shut down but we won't learn of this from your mate Ed until after it has all happened? It is not hard to despair when you see these things happening over and over. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 There's an old saying Alfa "He doth quote himself too oft" This is no time for slurs and innuendo against Keith; and certainly no time to try to justify the part you played in this. Keith's information will either be right or wrong. If it's right, then we don't know the reason; we all might have our won reasons, but what counts is CASA's reason. For CASA to go to this extreme, I'd be looking at the precedent of what they did with Tiger Airlines. However, I don't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ist ......... can anyone confirm whether this is true? It looks like it might well be an event worthy of 20 point size Emergency lettering. And certainly a very real threat. I'd say that if a couple of Board members don't stop and have a long hard think about what's good for the Association at this critical time, and support the President rather than continuing to worry about their injured sensibilities, then we'll all be grounded until we have a united Board and Exec. I'd suggest those Board members put aside their prejudices for a short while so that we can comply with the CASA 'Directive' (which is what it now is) and those members can revisit their indignation when the essential work has been done and the SMS is fully established. If it is true, then somebody else will have to take over, either CASA or another RAAO. There is no way that 10 000 people and 3500 aircraft will grounded for to long. I can assure everyone 100% that CASA will never take over - never! They were delighted to get rid of 'petty aviation' and they will quite simply ground us for as long as it takes for us to get our house in order. Don't have any illusion that 10,000 members is a size of lobby that will make any difference. The public only have to hear the word 'unsafe' and they'd be happier if we never fly again. Not grounded for long? One year, two years ... however long we take to satisfy them we're on top of it. It'll be far harder to get a grounding lifted than to receive it in the first place. CASA have been surprisingly lenient so far, if RAAus was a Commercial operation it would have been grounded years ago. A few people have looked into what it would take to start another RAAO, and quickly decided against it when they discovered the huge amount of work and cost involved. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 CASA looking at the way RA-Aus is being operated could well be considering their options. The facts would not be lost on them that RA-Aus is not well run by the majority of the current and recent Boards. Would CASA be motivated by how our board operates or by our consistent failure to meet CASA requirements regarding registrations and safety management. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryc Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This is not an emergency[bad choice of words] What I meant to say was DON'T PANIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Why would it surprise any of us that CASA could ground RA Aus for a period of time necessary to sort out the governance issues? Where there is smoke there is fire! I'm with HITC, CASA don't want to run RA Aus, but they certainly could shut us down or appoint an administrator to the CASA required processes. Hell they shut down Tiger Airlines did they not. Why would we be exempt from properly managing safety issues? Get ready for some grounding time if our Board does not respond adequately to the CASA request. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Based on my experience dealing with CASA over two decades, and the way the latest moves are shaping up, I'd say with confidence that in the next day or two everyone is going to be learning a lot more about CASA's extemporaneous methods for ensuring that it's 'subjects' choose to do things the way that suits CASA best. If you haven't given your plane or engine a complete rebuild lately it looks like you're going to have plenty of time to do it very soon. I am not joking folks. Whatever your feeling about Ed's actions may be, it had to be done, and I now see why he was right. We've had a good discussion about it on this thread and the wheels are in motion to change the entire way RAAus runs in the future but until September it's imperative that we maintain the status quo. This has now become a very serious situation. Think carefully if you value your flying privilege. I IMPLORE you all, just for now - STOP the bickering and phone your Rep and tell him to support Ed NOW. If Ed doesn't have the support of ALL of the Board (and he doesn't, that's the problem) we will all be grounded soon, believe me! Your Rep's number is here - pick up the phone PLEASE! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Just a thought - there's been lots of excellent and very considered opinion voiced on this thread but how many people have actually spoken with their local Rep in the last week? This is the big issue, the Reps will go their own way unless a bunch of people ring them and all start telling them which way they are to go. They are your Representative after all - they speak for you. So if you've spoken with your Rep about this please post here to say so - or if you prefer send me a PM - I'd really like for us all to know just how much the Reps are acting on our instructions and/or how much they're doing off their own bat if they're not being guided by the membership. EDIT - To get the ball rolling. I've spoken with my Rep, Mike Smith, six times in the last few days, for a total of about 2-3 hours. I've discussed my position with him extensively and he has told me his. He's also spoken with quite a few other members in his area. People in his electorate are mixed in their position on this, but most now think we must give the Board total support - for now at least. Mike started out very much against Ed when news of his action first broke but has softened his position a fair bit since. Here's the important bit - regardless of his own feelings on the matter, Mike has agreed to support Ed 100% for the good of the Association because that's what the majority of his electorate want him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK58 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 OK, spoke to my rep. There is no deadline of tomorrow. CASA has simply put in writing the threats they made at the meeting of a couple of weeks ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Based on my experience dealing with CASA over two decades, and the way the latest moves are shaping up, I'd say with confidence that in the next day or two everyone is going to be learning a lot more about CASA's extemporaneous methods for ensuring that it's 'subjects' choose to do things the way that suits CASA best.If you haven't given your plane or engine a complete rebuild lately it looks like you're going to have plenty of time to do it very soon. I am not joking folks. Whatever your feeling about Ed's actions may be, it had to be done, and I now see why he was right. We've had a good discussion about it on this thread and the wheels are in motion to change the entire way RAAus runs in the future but until September it's imperative that we maintain the status quo. This has now become a very serious situation. Think carefully if you value your flying privilege. I IMPLORE you all, just for now - STOP the bickering and phone your Rep and tell him to support Ed NOW. If Ed doesn't have the support of ALL of the Board (and he doesn't, that's the problem) we will all be grounded soon, believe me! Your Rep's number is here - pick up the phone PLEASE! And how then does CASA go about grounding and enforcing 3500 odd aircraft stay on the ground? Send everyone a letter? Just asking??! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 FWIW- I have been one of the ones saying for years on this forum that CASA will never take over RAA. They simply don't want it. But they give us pittance in funding . Having said that - do you honestly believe that if they did all of a sudden said "All RAA aircraft are grounded as of Wednesday 19th' that that would stop all Ultra light aircraft from flying. I doubt it. There are plenty of ultra light aircraft flying west of the great divide out of farms right now who have pilots who say " What is the RAA?" It may be easy to police and fine 10 or even a 100 people if caught flying UL aircraft after a Total Grounding. Try policing and fining 1000 pilots. Not going to happen. PS- It is pointless trying to compare this situation with the Titanic. The Titanic simply hit a Ice berg. It had nothing to do with oxygen thieving pencil pushing public servants. PS- Disclaimer-Since this is a public forum, I solemnly swear that I personally would not do such a "bad" thing to thumb my nose at authority if my hypothetical scenario actually happened. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 And how then does CASA go about grounding and enforcing 3500 odd aircraft stay on the ground? Send everyone a letter? Just asking??! When I was flying commercially I could quote the majority of the ANRs, then the CARs, now it's the CASRs. The penalties for non-compliance are listed with each Regulation. You'd be surprised how many of the penalties have a jail clause for what would appear to be relatively minor transgressions. Here are the CASRs - a good opportunity for some light reading while we're grounded - if we don't get this mess sorted out. TK58 - no it's not tomorrow but when those letters arrive you jump or fly a desk for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK58 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 OK, spoke to my rep. There is no deadline of tomorrow. CASA has simply put in writing the threats they made at the meeting of a couple of weeks ago. Which is not to say that's not a problem. It definitely is, but it's not necessarily the end of RAAus problem that Keith has claimed. Especially since Ed has already taken the action they're demanding - which is what this thread is about.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK58 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Wonder if the proximity of the federal election is helping us at the moment? Surely the minister (and therefore CASA) would be wary of pissing off 10,000 pilots this close to an election? Might be a factor in CASA's deliberations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 When I was flying commercially I could quote the majority of the ANRs, then the CARs, now it's the CASRs. The penalties for non-compliance are listed with each Regulation. You'd be surprised how many of the penalties have a jail clause for what would appear to be relatively minor transgressions.Here are the CASRs - a good opportunity for some light reading while we're grounded - if we don't get this mess sorted out. TK58 - no it's not tomorrow but when those letters arrive you jump or fly a desk for a while. You miss my point! How does CASA contact 3500 aircraft owners and say you are not allowed to fly them from 20/6/2013 ? This is not a business like Tiger ! it is a conglomeration of people all over the country, many uncontactable most of the time! like me:wink: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You miss my point! How does CASA contact 3500 aircraft owners and say you are not allowed to fly them from 20/6/2013 ? This is not a business like Tiger ! it is a conglomeration of people all over the country, many uncontactable most of the time! like me:wink: They don't, they just contact RAAus and then it's up to RAAus to notify you. As to how RAAus will contact you - probably the same way they contact you about your membership, rego, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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