RAA Safety-Training-Compliance Coordinator appointed

[Guest Maj Millard]

[quote="turboplanner, post: 298359

 

Townsville is not such a big place; go and have a cup of coffee with Steve Runciman and I guarantee you'll be a wiser man at the end.

 

Well that's not a bad idea actually, he should know exactly what is going on and would be able to speak openly without fear of retribution at a later date..........................Maj.....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

There'd be a statue of Ned Kelly in most towns somewhere also wouldn't there ?........................Maj.....

 

 

[facthunter]

In some (dark) places I have been people come up to me and ask, "statue? "Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Perhaps he is "The unknown soldier"

or perhaps, he's the keeper of 11 herbs and spices.......

 

Because theres a very unique taste left in my mouth after this whole episode.....Not so much finger lickin though

 

 

[Captain]

Or "Crazy Jim"?

 

 

[facthunter]

You're not that NOTHRU road are you? nev

 

 

[drifterdriver]

HITC,

 

Al next time you're at the Well stop by for a coffee at Cafe APA. I'd like to discuss our differences of opinion on recent events if you've got time and I promise that if I say "one lump or two" I won't be referring to the milk.

 

DWF,

 

I agree with your comments regarding the impost on one man band FTFs. Fortunately I already have a SMS in place but this is only due to the fact that my very part time fellow instructor is knowledgable on the subject (and can touch type).

 

Nick

 

 

[drifterdriver]

You're not the statue of the little cherub boy peeing by any chance?

 

Come on, give us all a hint please.

 

Animal, vegetable or mineral?

 

 

[Captain]

Perhaps it's .........................................

 

Cute but bricksh*thouse Tubb?

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Eats, roots and leaves???

 

 

[Captain]

Eats, roots and leaves???

Can't be, as Tubb never seems to go away, ................. unless those are all verbs.

 

(Verbs are "doing" words to you guys and guyettes from f'n Q, .... Eh?)[ .... sorry Sue.].

 

 

[turboplanner]

Gee Major's got some clout - I just posted a photo of him and it disappeared!

 

 

[drifterdriver]

He's not the cherub is he? If he is then I can understand the photo being removed

 

 

[facthunter]

With the Wombat they are all verbs because they are compared to overseas pilots.

 

DD you are all fired up today.. Nev

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Yep. I'm sanding the plane for a respray so it doesn't take much for me to find an excuse to stop. Each post equals one coffee. Man I need to go to the bathroom.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Gee Major's got some clout - I just posted a photo of him and it disappeared!

That's called a Major vanishing act !!!!...................Maj...

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not so fast!

 

Source: CIA

 

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Nice shot there Turbs.............Maj...

 

 

[Woodduck]

The main problem seems to be that CASA is trying to treat the Sport Aviation bodies like the Commercial/Charter Organisations. Has anyone asked CASA how are they going to implement their SMS with their PPLs?

 

GFA has always had an SMS (although it wasn't called that as such) with the club structure delivering ops review through peer pressure, Instructor Panels, Club inspections and Ops panel review of accidents/incidents. GFA has recently rolled out a documented SMS as part of the CASA/GFA Deed of Agreement (which incidently in quantum does not go half as much as it cost GFA to do all of CASA's work on their behalf).

 

You can see the outline at: http://www.glidingaustralia.org/Operations/OPS_0025.pdf

 

and the risk management toolkit at: http://glidingaustralia.org/Safety/risk-management-toolkit.html

 

GFA's big advantage is that every member is attached to a club, which delivers peer pressure and standardisation, whereas RAAus and HGFA can be unsupervised as soon as they reach certification and operate outside FTFs.

 

I hope RAAus members apply the same peer pressure, as they have to their fellow administators, to their fellow pilots that need counselling in their operations......

 

 

[turboplanner]

The main problem seems to be that CASA is trying to treat the Sport Aviation bodies like the Commercial/Charter Organisations. Has anyone asked CASA how are they going to implement their SMS with their PPLs?GFA has always had an SMS (although it wasn't called that as such) with the club structure delivering ops review through peer pressure, Instructor Panels, Club inspections and Ops panel review of accidents/incidents. GFA has recently rolled out a documented SMS as part of the CASA/GFA Deed of Agreement (which incidently in quantum does not go half as much as it cost GFA to do all of CASA's work on their behalf).

You can see the outline at: http://www.glidingaustralia.org/Operations/OPS_0025.pdf

 

and the risk management toolkit at: http://glidingaustralia.org/Safety/risk-management-toolkit.html

 

GFA's big advantage is that every member is attached to a club, which delivers peer pressure and standardisation, whereas RAAus and HGFA can be unsupervised as soon as they reach certification and operate outside FTFs.

 

I hope RAAus members apply the same peer pressure, as they have to their fellow administators, to their fellow pilots that need counselling in their operations......

 

Yes a lot of organization required very quickly, and pilots will need to be "attached" to something, but there is a good club/flying school network to do this, and provide voluntary Safety/Compliance Officers at each club to build the safety network.

 

 

[oracle1]

This thread has degenerated into Chutzpah. The Canberra Communists in RAA will soon be going to the same place as the Canberra Communists up on the hill. (excluding the board members who have been honest with the membership, they know who they are) If the board cant get together in a room and agree on what is a principle staff appointment I don't give a rats a**e about constitutions, I will simply stop paying my money and my aircraft will never fly with numbers again. If we cant trust this board with a staff appointment how can we trust the board to ensure the RAA's future especially with a regulator who is clearly antagonistic towards our failures, perhaps justifiably so. There are millions in the bank, for goodness sake spend some money and hire someone who is competent to clean up the mess. I don't care how you paint it or how many sweet words you wrap around it, its jobs for the boys and nasty politics. People are dead because aviation is dangerous and people will continue to die. About the only factor we can change is the rate at which they die and the fact is the current junta have thus far shown no ability to change this. Call an election and clean out the dead wood from the board otherwise it will only get worse from here.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

CASA does seem to want to upgrade everything to a higher level for some reason, known only to them. We need to resist that and maintain our own grass roots feel, in our ops at least.

 

The last thing we need in our organisation is over-management, and additional regulation. Keep it simple stupid (KISS theory)...CASA itself is an over-managed organisation which is why they are out to justify every penny they spend on us.....Maj...

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

CASA does seem to want to upgrade everything to a higher level for some reason, known only to them. We need to resist that and maintain our own grass roots feel, in our ops at least.The last thing we need in our organisation is over-management, and additional regulation. Keep it simple stupid (KISS theory)...CASA itself is an over-managed organisation which is why they are out to justify every penny they spend on us.....Maj...

Its because the CASA sports aviation dept looks after all of the self administering organisations and while RAAus has a significant fatality figure for this year, across the whole sports aviation groups combined it is an even worse one, and one that has to change as Lee U explained to me today (circa 30 fatalities). When RAAus, the biggest participant of the group is seen to be dragging the chain (or not even picking it up to drag) then the CASA team is exposed if it doesn't act to force us to meet our obligations.

 

Ed chose to do that, but not in a way I support, especially when a supported way was eminently possible, and more quickly that what he ended up with, but that's 20/20 hindsight, or just obvious if you have a view to what good governance and control looks like. The CASA effectively went that, to me obvious, way when the "grand plan" was found to bereft of legs...... By sending a strongly worded letter that got everyone's attention, now it remains for the board to look at Ed's solution and see if its the only appropriate solution to the underlying problem.....but in any event act quickly as the clock is ticking down

 

I'm sure history will show that the short-circuit of controls saved no time, and in fact cost time, over an approach that aligned with the necessary controls. Of course we cant learn that lesson till its over and we aren't smart enough to try and learn it from others who have come before us..... The irony is that at the end of the day the whole SMS thing is about a risk management system that is supposed to protect us from repeating the mistakes of the past......

 

I know its been said before but it is worth labouring.....These aren't new requirements, rather they are requirements we signed up to many years ago on more than one occasion in our annual Deed of Agreement. The CASA only want us to do what we have said we will do, and for which we have been paid (arguably not enough.....but that's an argument for when you are negotiating to sign, not after you already have!)

 

Andy

 

 

[turboplanner]

Ed chose to do that, but not in a way I support, especially when a supported way was eminently possible

You can't turn pigsh!t into strawberry jam just by adding sugar.

 

The obfuscation dates right back into the Steve Runciman days, when he was acting quite correctly ion desperately trying to get Recreational Aviation Australia Inc. board members to meet their obligations under the Deed of Agreement with CASA.

 

I'm sure a solution might me eminently possible now with CASA leaving no alternative, but the cold hard truth is that what both Steve Runciman and Ed Herring were doing was necessary and right, and the Constituition was being used to block them.

 

 

[David Isaac]

.....but the cold hard truth is that what both Steve Runciman and Ed Herring were doing was necessary and right, and the Constituition was being used to block them.

If by that you mean democracy was being used to block them ... what is the alternative. I am certain democracy would have worked if the Board had been presented with the CASA ultimatum letter first, not some secret meeting with the President or part Executive or whatever it was that created the alleged 'emergency'.

 

CASA are complicit in this balls up as well. Why didn't they write to the Board back then? Why have this so called emergency meeting? Why suddenly write the letter now? Why .. perhaps because they have realised the situation they are complicit in and are now trying to get Board support for Ed's action after the fact.

 

No matter which way you cut it, PROPER process should still have been followed. It was not an emergency, the issue was known, all it needed was an ultimatum letter from CASA to the Board and they would have had no option but to immediately comply.

 

To use your own quote HH "... You can't turn pigsh!t into strawberry jam just by adding sugar". Isn't that what you are attempting to do with Ed's poorly advised actions?

 

It shoulder NEVER have happened and attempting to justify it is completely hypocritical. How can breaking the rules of the constitution ever be justified, no matter what the reason? If we don't like the rules then action changes (some of which we have already done and many more yet to follow). But to be successful at that we will need bi-partisan support.