RAA Safety-Training-Compliance Coordinator appointed

[turboplanner]

I agree with you Cherk, it's a sick, embedded cancer.

 

 

[flyvulcan]

...I would be surprised if the board has even considered this question. Without asking and answering it there's no way we could ever move forward as an association as we have no idea what the hell we're trying to achieve!

This is the obvious first step in overhauling our organisation. That is, for the Board to accurately determine a clear and comprehensive set of Objectives for the organisation. The current list of Objectives that is on the RAAus website appear to be in need of an overhaul.

 

 

[Oscar]

I don't want to start any acrimonious discussion here - and I am very sympathetic to the 'why don't they just go away and leave us in peace' argument. Perhaps this is an issue for a new thread, to in fact help the new Board direct its thoughts towards all aspects of a strategy for RAA's future.

 

However, one short comment: if your current version of 'Recreational flying' involves going over 300 feet, flying in the proximity of habitation, crossing a road, or having a passenger and (often) having been trained by an instructor instead of teaching yourself to fly, literally, from the ground up - then you are already operating in an environment that has moved closer to GA. Unless you only fly within those limits, as I see it, the argument that 'GA-like privileges' is an onerous burden is a matter of degree of GA-like regulation you are happy to fly under, not a blanket 'GA-like - non-GA like' situation.

 

 

[facthunter]

And people who take it for granted that you can fly across this continent in the planes we have at our disposal should realise how far the movement has come. Flying a Jabiru around Australia hardly raises much more than a ho hum..

 

Nev

 

 

[TK58]

John, the years you mention we're the years we all suffered under the global financial crisis. There was a general downturn in flying activities in this country, and internationally for that matter. Naturally because of that there were also less accidents and fatalities.If the HF had made a lasting impression, that would still be the case, but it is not. Soon as activity went up, so did the accident tally. There were things to be learned from HF for us all, however no comparison to getting real data on what is really causing our accidents, be it aircraft failures or pilot related problems. We are losing so much valuable info from being keep in the dark on our accidents . If CASA are really concerned, then that's the best way they can help us now..............Maj...

If you look at what Crezzi said, he refers to accidents per flying hour. You may be correct that the number of hours flown was lower in those years, but that has no effect on the rate per flying hour. Accidents per flying hour is independent of how many hours are flown. Regardless of the rate per hour, basic arithmetic says more hours equals more accidents, but that is not the point Crezzi was making. Total number of accidents is not the right metric to determine whether things are improving.

 

The effectiveness of any training declines over time unless it's continually reinforced and HF is no exception. There has been no reinforcement of the HF training so it should be no surprise if accident rates are increasing.

 

Agree 110% that the lack of information about the findings of accident investigations is a safety issue for all of us.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Affordability is one of the main drivers of recreational flying today. From a basic RAAus aircraft to one with all the bells and whistles is now a choice that would have been out of reach for most fifteen years ago. Recreational aircraft can now match it with GA for sophistication in avionics, performance and quality. And all this at a time when many pilots just want to return to the simple life. We hear it all the time, and fair enough.

 

The other driver is the shift by older pilots from PPL/GA to RAAus. Many who were GA instrument rated must look at the new glass panels/auto pilots of our newer recreational aircraft and consider their options. The advances have been breathtaking and all of this is going to put considerable pressure on our regulators and training institutions because sure as god the new technology will be utilised. (Just imagine what Oz Runways will be capable of in ten years time)

 

There is no going back. Sure we can keep it simple, but to what degree will be a decision to be taken by the individual. What we must be sure of is that the system can cater for all. RAAus has a key role to play in the development of training that accommodates the sophistication of todays recreational aircraft. To delegate that responsibility solely to GA / CASA should not be an option. We really do need to redefine our RAAus organisational objectives if we are to stay current in a rapidly changing world.

 

Pete

 

 

[Oscar]

Pete - totally agree. I've just posted a new thread - 'A Possible Path for RAA Development?' - in the Governing Bodies area- not a very polished opening post, but maybe we can use it to thrash around some ideas amongst forum members? This thread is about a specific situation and I think it might be useful to have a dedicated area where people can push their ideas.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

HMMM. Somebody pointed out that RAA is part of GA. It is; it's a particular subset of GA. GA with some of the complicated bits left out, if you will. Recreational aircraft fly in the same atmosphere as all other classes of aircraft; and they are subject to the same rules (with a few complicated bits left out). This means, the RAA board needs to comprehend where RAaus fits in relation to the rest of aviation; it needs to know which rules it is NOT exempted from, as well as the conditions under which the exemptions in CAO 95.55 apply. RAA cannot shut itself in a box and ignore the rest of the World.

 

How can this be reconciled with the attitudes of the KISS people? Well, I think you will find that it does not really conflict, if you understand the big picture; it only appears to, to people who do not have that perspective.

 

Here's the germ of an idea of how a better understanding of how recreational aviation really fits:

 

Let us imagine that all the present forms of pilot licence were combined into a general pilot licence - for an idea of what that might look like, see the attachment (it's far from complete, but you can see the idea:

 

One would start as a student in the aircraft class of one's choice - somewhere in the top left corner of the matrix. As one gains a qualification, so you get a stamp in another box in the matrix. You can progress or not as you wish. If you want to be a career pilot, you could progress towards the lower right corner of the matrix.

 

Notice that there are no artificial boundaries. If you want to qualify for another box in the matrix, you get training from an organisation that can supply it, and when you are qualified, you get a stamp in that box. The licence is universal - it is recognised by all aviation organisations in Australia. Maybe overseas also, in time.

 

The KISS people can stay in the CAO95.10/Recreational VRF/day box, if that's what they want to do. We're all pilots. What you can fly, and what purpose you can fly it for, depends on which boxes are stamped on your licence.

 

 

 

[Keith Page]

The place has gone quiet, is that good/bad? BAD

 

All this fuss started about a Safety Training Compliance Coordinator being incorrectly appointed, the big barney is over with people resigning, fighting, procrastinating, bragging, shoving their egos out there so we all could see and all that stuff --------------NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

 

Some one did rouse on me and I am not going back through the posts to find out, I made the comment when the new executive was instated asking them to get off their buts and do something quickly, I was told give them time.

 

I ask how much time??????????????????????

 

Looks like Ed and Myles are 100% correct and the hounds did not like their speed of work so the hounds pulled them back to their speed. ((((((Stopped))))))

 

Must be correct--------- As the hounds are quiet and still, not even a little yap.

 

When is something going to be done regarding the Safety Management System??????????????

 

What is going to happen??????????????????????

 

Regards

 

Keith Page

 

 

[Captain]

The place has gone quiet, is that good/bad? BADAll this fuss started about a Safety Training Compliance Coordinator being incorrectly appointed, the big barney is over with people resigning, fighting, procrastinating, bragging, shoving their egos out there so we all could see and all that stuff --------------NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

Some one did rouse on me and I am not going back through the posts to find out, I made the comment when the new executive was instated asking them to get off their buts and do something quickly, I was told give them time.

 

I ask how much time??????????????????????

 

Looks like Ed and Myles are 100% correct and the hounds did not like their speed of work so the hounds pulled them back to their speed. ((((((Stopped))))))

 

Must be correct--------- As the hounds are quiet and still, not even a little yap.

 

When is something going to be done regarding the Safety Management System??????????????

 

What is going to happen??????????????????????

 

Regards

 

Keith Page

Wow KP, you are a fine piece of work.

 

Lots of capitals and question marks and even some bold red bits ............. but wrong never the less.

 

(Your mate Myles reckons that words in emails with capitals or bold are yelling and that red writing is extremely rude, so lucky you aren't directing this at him).

 

From what I see, RAA may just be functioning more smoothly at the moment and from what I understand, the meeting of our Board with CASA went ok, if not well.

 

It seems like the new Exec is getting on with running the show without panic or outside of the rules.

 

If I am correct, then that is good (and a vast improvement). And I just know that you are trying your best with the above post to help them even further, so thanks for that.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Keith Page]

Hello Geoff

 

Thank you for your reply, the silence is the bit which gets me, like big business and children when there is silence we ask questions, as there is something happening.

 

I can not see anything wrong with red and capitals just highlight points how do points get imbedded in ones mind.

 

The new executive may be getting along and doing something, what?? Lets us know so the likes of me can get some correct views, as it stands with what can I form an opinion.

 

I can not see anything which says RAAus is functioning more smoothly, Geoff where did you get your info??

 

No reports anywhere even the RAAus web site nothing, Where is the communication??

 

We have all heard communication.

 

The silsence is (bad)-- leave that in lower case.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Keith,

 

We had lots of silence when things were going bad. If you look at the RAA Members Only portal you will see there is more information than we have been used to. Weekly rego updates, monthly financials (up to end of May now - will give it a look tonight) - minutes of meetings, documents suggesting change, audits, Deed of Agreement etc. Ticking along nicely. Rather should I say whispering along.

 

I will be at the meeting at Ausfly to hear from our leaders. Communication works both ways.

 

Sue

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I'm aware of what is being done.......to get that awareness I rang and spoke to a board member....I'm satisfied that what is being done is appropriate and standard business practises and I offered my assistance to the team if they want it.

 

CASA must also have been satisfied by virtue that the meeting was, I'm told, constructive and positive and there are timelines in place to achieve the required adherence to the DoA.

 

You could also have rung...and gotten the same message...rather than ..............

 

Andy

 

 

[Captain]

Keith,We had lots of silence when things were going bad. If you look at the RAA Members Only portal you will see there is more information than we have been used to. Weekly rego updates, monthly financials (up to end of May now - will give it a look tonight) - minutes of meetings, documents suggesting change, audits, Deed of Agreement etc. Ticking along nicely. Rather should I say whispering along.

I will be at the meeting at Ausfly to hear from our leaders. Communication works both ways.

 

Sue

Well said Sue,

 

I agree, and while more communication would certainly be welcome, I am prepared to cut Rod and Jim some slack on communications for a month or so as I am sure that they are flat out sorting out issues that they have prioritised.

 

It is a sad reflection on past Executives that it is a relief (at least to me) that since Rod and Jim took their seats on the Exec, no glaring governance or procedural issues have come to light as part of, or as a result of, their actions. We haven't had an Executive like that for years.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[turboplanner]

So the logic is now, if you don't hear anything that means things must be good?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Your point is valid...I'd still like more communications....I had hoped by now that there would be an update on the RAAus website.....

 

If there was one aspect that has driven the changes and disquiet of the last 5 years its been the lack of communications that aligns to positions as we understand them. Transparency should never be underrated.

 

 

[Captain]

So the logic is now, if you don't hear anything that means things must be good?

Certainly not Alan, and as you know I, like you, have been calling for improved communication from the RAA Exec & Board for YEARS (and years).

 

However, look on the bright side, as at least no examples have immediately or yet come to light where this President and/or Treasurer have straight away decided to operate outside of the Constitution or the principals of good governance. Given where RAA has been in the past, that's a reasonable thing to celebrate in my opinion.

 

Given that gain, all I proposed was to cut them a little slack to allow them to progress their responsibilities before they start to communicate effectively what they have done.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

So the logic is now, if you don't hear anything that means things must be good?

The gnus have sore feet, maybe?

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Nope they're fine, I think just the whining and carping has died down.

 

 

[Admin]

I think things are quiet because the industry has been hurt, hurt very badly over the last 2 years under a poorly performing RAAus Management and more specifically over the last 9 months. We see an unprecedented amount of aircraft up for sale, we see anger at its peak and much more, so over time it simply wears people out, wears them out to a point where people just say "I've had enough" and move on.

 

Apart from a possibility that the uptake of boating or motorcycles may increase from the spill, I believe it will take at least 1 to 2 years before some degree of confidence, and enjoyment, returns to our industry and a possible return of those that have recently left in disgust, plus with a newly found confidence and return of vigour in "recreational flying is fun" again, we will start to see this radiate out to the general public which can only support the promotion of our industry and growth with the influx of new members.

 

Those board reps, and a CEO, that have recently left along with a few that still remain have a lot to answer for in the complete destruction that they have caused in a whole industry...that will always be known as their legacy

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Agree with that but the transition from a committee of management to a proper, contemporary business model was always going to be hard. I am not convinced that there are still members who like the idea of a less bureaucratic structure and the committee/board tinkering in management. What we are currently experiencing are the growing pains of a new organisation. Don't be too hard on our past administration but resist with a passion any attempt for a return to the past. And remember - power is never given, it is always taken. (Unless you work in welfare, that is)

 

Pete

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

I think things are quiet because the industry has been hurt, hurt very badly over the last 2 years under a poorly performing RAAus Management and more specifically over the last 9 months. We see an unprecedented amount of aircraft up for sale, we see anger at its peak and much more, so over time it simply wears people out, wears them out to a point where people just say "I've had enough" and move on.Apart from a possibility that the uptake of boating or motorcycles may increase from the spill, I believe it will take at least 1 to 2 years before some degree of confidence, and enjoyment, returns to our industry and a possible return of those that have recently left in disgust, plus with a newly found confidence and return of vigour in "recreational flying is fun" again, we will start to see this radiate out to the general public which can only support the promotion of our industry and growth with the influx of new members.

 

Those board reps, and a CEO, that have recently left along with a few that still remain have a lot to answer for in the complete destruction that they have caused in a whole industry...that will always be known as their legacy

Yes; however what is the proportion who simply decide that aviation is a mug's game and give it away completely, versus those who move away from RAA to another form of aviation? I consider this a most important statistic, because it is the determinant of whether the GA industry as a whole (i.e. including all the recreational facets) goes ahead or not. The more people involved overall, the less costly it will be for the individual, and therefore there is a "snowball" effect, to a degree. Firstly, it annoys me intensely to see people driven away from aviation simply due to bad management (and I do not mean solely the bad management within RAA - I see bad management almost everywhere; and it's all totally unnecessary). Secondly, I see that RAA will in future have to sell itself in a competetive marketplace. I don't think it has that much to offer, if one looks at it dispassionately. On the whole, the pros and cons of RAA versus other options are very much a matter of one's personal situation and experience; there's no overwhelming advantage to any of them. If you are interested in a census, count me as one who has gone from RAA to another area of aviation, and who is not coming back.

 

 

[Captain]

I think things are quiet because the industry has been hurt, hurt very badly over the last 2 years under a poorly performing RAAus Management and more specifically over the last 9 months. We see an unprecedented amount of aircraft up for sale, we see anger at its peak and much more, so over time it simply wears people out, wears them out to a point where people just say "I've had enough" and move on.Apart from a possibility that the uptake of boating or motorcycles may increase from the spill, I believe it will take at least 1 to 2 years before some degree of confidence, and enjoyment, returns to our industry and a possible return of those that have recently left in disgust, plus with a newly found confidence and return of vigour in "recreational flying is fun" again, we will start to see this radiate out to the general public which can only support the promotion of our industry and growth with the influx of new members.

 

Those board reps, and a CEO, that have recently left along with a few that still remain have a lot to answer for in the complete destruction that they have caused in a whole industry...that will always be known as their legacy

Good post Ian,

 

I have been staggered at the size of the For Sale section in the magazine over the last couple of months, and surely that is a clear indication of the members voting with their wallets, unless these are all going on to buy new aircraft.

 

That many for sale will also surely erode resale prices.

 

I agree with you that what we are seeing now is the result of ratsh*t management & administration of RAA and it will take some time to recover from that battering.

 

But I also have to say that Board size, impending legal action and the ongoing rego issues aside, I get the vibe that with Mark as GM/CEO and with Rod and Jim settling things down, and progressing Board issues, at Board level, hopefully we are in for some smooth air and progressive good management that will go a long way to turn things around.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The RAA hasn't had a lot of growth over the last few years, the clerical error which saw the RAA gaining 1200 pilots a year fooled the Exec into believing that they where doing a good job promoting the sport. But go to most RAA airfields and the hangars tell a different story.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The RAA hasn't had a lot of growth over the last few years, the clerical error which saw the RAA gaining 1200 pilots a year fooled the Exec into believing that they where doing a good job promoting the sport. But go to most RAA airfields and the hangars tell a different story.

There hasn't been any hangar space at my airfield for years now, and there still isn't. In fact another hangar may be going up shortly....Same at nearby Stark field, where all the hangars are full.....Maj...