RAA Safety-Training-Compliance Coordinator appointed

[John G]

I offer Ed Herring my full and unwavering support in these desperate times. I only wish that the people on this Forum who spend so much time bashing Board Members, Presidents, and RA-Aus in general, would instead direct their obvious passion in a positive and useful way eg 'What can we do to help" instead of posting on some Forum that is full of Keyboard Warriors hiding behind aforementioned Keyboards, that overshadow the good contributors and contributions on this site. So many negative people that offer a lot of pi$$ and wind, but no real solutions.

Ok; are you supporting ED because he is your SA representative?

I am not full of piss and wind; ask your questions and I will be happy to answer why Ed is WRONG!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Ok; are you supporting ED because he is your SA representative?I am not full of piss and wind; ask your questions and I will be happy to answer why Ed is WRONG!!!!!!!!

1. No

 

2. No need

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

I offer Ed Herring my full and unwavering support in these desperate times. I only wish that the people on this Forum who spend so much time bashing Board Members, Presidents, and RA-Aus in general, would instead direct their obvious passion in a positive and useful way eg 'What can we do to help" instead of posting on some Forum that is full of Keyboard Warriors hiding behind aforementioned Keyboards, that overshadow the good contributors and contributions on this site. So many negative people that offer a lot of pi$$ and wind, but no real solutions.

Close your eyes and ears and hope for the best - not sure I'd want to fly with you on that basis.

 

These guys don't want help from just anyone. They actively discourage it unless it is from a sycophant like yourself.

 

It is really very simple:

 

- work within the Rules set out in the Constitution;

 

- abide by the Deed of Agreement with CASA; and,

 

- don't breach the Associations Incorporation Act.

 

How is that for starters?

 

If they just did that much there would be a lot less to complain about.

 

Oh, and don't give jobs to mates - use above board, generally accepted recruitment practices.

 

If these blokes did all of the above there would be no desperate times. We got into this mess because they didn't stick to the Rules they had agreed with CASA. And, when CASA pointed it out they let 12 months go by and 700 planes grounded while they fiddled around not doing enough about it. They sit on $2.75 million of members funds but won't spend the cash to get the processing done.

 

And you want the people who can't see any of the above being wrong to have your unwavering support.

 

Very generous SAJF but not very smart.

 

They don't need help doing it they help to see what needs to be done!

 

But nobody can tell them because they don't want to hear it. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

 

 

[TK58]

I offer Ed Herring my full and unwavering support in these desperate times. I only wish that the people on this Forum who spend so much time bashing Board Members, Presidents, and RA-Aus in general, would instead direct their obvious passion in a positive and useful way eg 'What can we do to help" instead of posting on some Forum that is full of Keyboard Warriors hiding behind aforementioned Keyboards, that overshadow the good contributors and contributions on this site. So many negative people that offer a lot of pi$$ and wind, but no real solutions.

So if it's ok for Ed to make this decision, which appears to have a financial impact in the tens of thousands of dollars even if the position only lasts until September, where should the line be drawn? What is the limit of the President's authority if it's not the limits defined in the Constitution and the By Laws? And who decides?

 

Expecting the full support of the Board on issues that have been debated and voted on is perfectly reasonable. Expecting the Board to support actions they didn't know about is not.

 

Ed has overstepped the line on this one and needs to know a lot of members and a significant part of the Board are not happy about it.

 

What I'm doing to help (besides standing for the Board) is adding my voice to those protesting the way Ed has gone about this appointment - not just here but directly with Ed and my local Board rep.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Close your eyes and ears and hope for the best - not sure I'd want to fly with you on that basis.

Very generous SAJF but not very smart.

 

*much snipped*

 

.

I'm known as one of the most anally-retentive and safety concious pilots at my local airfield. I'm the one who's Daily is nearly very well so. But anyway, you're welcome to personally insult my flying skills, as generally I find that such things say more about the insulter than the insultee.

 

Happy Flying :)

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

So if it's ok for Ed to make this decision (snip)What I'm doing to help (besides standing for the Board) is adding my voice to those protesting the way Ed has gone about this appointment - not just here but directly with Ed and my local Board rep.

 

... and at least you have the balls to make the call rather than hiding behind your keyboard, well done!!

 

 

[pbugg]

I offer Ed Herring my full and unwavering support in these desperate times. I only wish that the people on this Forum who spend so much time bashing Board Members, Presidents, and RA-Aus in general, would instead direct their obvious passion in a positive and useful way eg 'What can we do to help" instead of posting on some Forum that is full of Keyboard Warriors hiding behind aforementioned Keyboards, that overshadow the good contributors and contributions on this site. So many negative people that offer a lot of pi$$ and wind, but no real solutions.

Your entitled to your opinion and if you were on the RAA board, that would count fror diddly squat. You would not be asked, if you offered an opinion you yould be ignored, and the el presidenta would make a decision and expect your undivided loyalty after the fact to legalise his decision. So SA Jabiruflyre, good luck with that one.

 

Your wrong in a lot of the people on this forum are keyboard warriors. I personally know of many who have offered assistance in a positive way only to be ignored by the board majority, including myself. Tell us all what you have done besides kissing Ed's hairy pink bits? Please do not devalue the thinking membership, we do not deserve this crap from our elected representatives, nor you.

 

I for one paid for my trip to Canberra, my cost, not members money. cost me over $1,000 plus missed an important family function just to listen to , Yes we stuffed up, it won't happen again, yes we could have done better, no it won't happen again. Your Ed was front and center in the now proven deceitful answers to members.

 

I'm real upset the current board have compromised our future by their incompetence and non performance. Next EGM I will not be accepting excuses, I want heads.

 

And now we have Dave Caban as Treasurer. the man who the board gave a motion of no confidence last time he tried to add up 1+1

 

God help us all.....

 

Ok; are you supporting ED because he is your SA representative?I am not full of piss and wind; ask your questions and I will be happy to answer why Ed is WRONG!!!!!!!!

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Your entitled to your opinion and if you were on the RAA board, that would count fror diddly squat. You would not be asked, if you offered an opinion you yould be ignored, and the el presidenta would make a decision and expect your undivided loyalty after the fact to legalise his decision. So SA Jabiruflyre, good luck with that one.*snip*

 

God help us all.....

So to you pbugg (and to anyone else who is Anti-Board, Anti President etc) I ask... "What are YOUR plans to guide RA-Aus into the future, and how are YOU going to go about it?"

 

 

[nomadpete]

Ed,

 

Firstly thank you for coming to this group of concerned RAAus members, and expanding on your motives. We need to hear more from you. We need more open communication from you and the board because it is the only way to defuse the rumor mill. If a forum like this was available on the official RAAus website. I'm sure we would all be over there airing the same concerns. But that is another separate issue.

 

It should be obvious that most here are outraged by what seems to be your impulsive actions, and operating outside our proper processes. We do appreciate that you are operating in a possibly hostile environment, and definitely under a lot of pressure but that does not excuse the way this has been done.

 

BUT - Why didn't you work around the problem just a little? If you HAD taken the proper course and asked the whole board for permission, and they had voted it down, You then had the option to make an immediate press release to members by email and forums and RAAus website - a President's Report to advise us what is happening (the urgency, the consequences and the board rejection) so that we the members would see where the problem lay (and not blame you) so the members could then contact their board member/s with pressure to revise their decision. All of which could be done in a couple of days. If a couple of days would have made all that much difference to the consequences, please explain that to us. As members we deserve blunt, spin free honesty. Now I am hearing more snippits, which may be true, or not. When you take drastic steps the whole picture should be seen by all.

 

I feel that your actions have brought the integrity of RAAus into question.

 

All I can say is "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?"

 

As for Myles, well, so far we have not heard from him with any urgently required "roadmap to the future safety for all recreational pilots". If it was all that urgent, then Myles has had enough time to rough out something to make us all know that he is actually doing something that we (and CASA) can connect with his new role. Or hasn't that been discussed yet?

 

I am deeply disappointed.

 

Peter T

 

 

[pbugg]

So to you pbugg (and to anyone else who is Anti-Board, Anti President etc) I ask... "What are YOUR plans to guide RA-Aus into the future, and how are YOU going to go about it?"

My plans? Stick to the rules, act in a professional, business and culturally accepted manner, don't tell lies, do what you promise, How is that for starters?

 

If the present board are incapable of achieving any of the above , my opinion is they should stand aside for someone who promises to do so. SAJabiruflyrer, what do you think?

 

 

[pbugg]

Oh, I forgot to ask,

 

SA Jabiruflyer, what have you done to make a difference besides publicly declaring your unyielding love for ED no matter what he decides to do?

 

So to you pbugg (and to anyone else who is Anti-Board, Anti President etc) I ask... "What are YOUR plans to guide RA-Aus into the future, and how are YOU going to go about it?"

u

 

 

[TK58]

... and at least you have the balls to make the call rather than hiding behind your keyboard, well done!!

You haven't answered my question. How do we know where the line is if it's not the line drawn in the Constitution? What's to stop Ed from sacking the GM tomorrow [moderated*], or selling the RAAus office building to SAAA for $100, or taking the $1.5m in the bank and putting it all on red at the casino? Far fetched examples, I know (well, the last two at least), but it's a serious question. What are the limits on the President's authority if it's not the limits in the Constitution? And if he exceeds those limits, what should we do? Saying 'well he had to' doesn't cut it for mine.

 

*Claim removed at request of OP

 

 

[Tiger]

Well said pbugg and TK58. We don't want our Association flittered away by someone doing something illegal. Come on board, do something about it now before we are all grounded.

 

 

[pbugg]

If it's not too late, please all use the next elections to carefully consider who you vote for. Consider if who your voting for are already on the board. Did they rubber stamp poor decisions in the past or did they stand out and be counted.

 

If they are new candidates, do they have a vision for the betterment of the RAA.

 

We need a board who listens to the members, acts in our best interests and spends its time making sound decisions to enhance our future, not theirs.

 

We need aboard members who possess skills to take us forward.

 

How wonderful if we had RAA member to stand forward who had the vision, drive and experience to take us to the future. I'm sorry Middo, Eugene, Dave, Ed and others are our past, not our future.

 

Your vote counts.

 

 

[airangel]

If it's not too late, please all use the next elections to carefully consider who you vote for. Consider if who your voting for are already on the board. Did they rubber stamp poor decisions in the past or did they stand out and be counted.If they are new candidates, do they have a vision for the betterment of the RAA.

 

We need a board who listens to the members, acts in our best interests and spends its time making sound decisions to enhance our future, not theirs.

 

We need aboard members who possess skills to take us forward.

 

How wonderful if we had RAA member to stand forward who had the vision, drive and experience to take us to the future. I'm sorry Middo, Eugene, Dave, Ed and others are our past, not our future.

 

Your vote counts.

Why dont you stand pbugg new member!

 

 

[pbugg]

Why don't I stand?

 

In SE Qld the are two positions vacant, John Mc and Myles, both are not standing. Tony King and Trevor Bange who are two outstanding candidates who will make a difference have put their names forward, so I consider there is no reason why I should run. I'm happy to support Mike Smith, a newly elected rep who is doing a great job, Trevor and Tony as I'm confident they will make a difference. I don't think they will support a president who makes decisions without their knowledge and expect ratification in arrears.

 

I have been is business since 1970 and I have made many bad decisions in that time, I have served on national boards, small company local boards. school and non for profit boards, various committees, but I have never seen the antics, unprofessional, amateurish, illegal and down right stupid decisions we all have witnessed by our RAA board in recent times. I wise man once said we get the politicians we deserve. Your vote, your voice

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Ed, thank you for attending this forum and providing your explanation.

 

The others have pretty much said it all but I'll just add -

 

Emergency? Go on, pull the other one. Certainly not a Mayday, not even a PanPan, it would appear more like another Crying Wolf moment.

 

I'd guess CASA quite simply called your bluff to test your mettle and you went into a placatory tiz. They do that very effectively until you get the measure of them, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread they are always exceptionally careful to never put themselves in a position where they could be accused of impropriety. Had they failed in that regard, and you really had been forced into a corner, I think you'd be squealing loudly about that rather than working on another snow-job of the membership.

 

Ed, you probably noticed, but just in case you didn't - since your post here something like 25 people have registered their absolute disgust with your action and you have just one supporter of it. Can you please tell us what you plan to do about it?

 

Has anyone phoned Myles? His name/number has disappeared off the list of Reps on the RAAus site - that was quick! Wouldn't it be sensible for him to post his story here?

 

 

[drifterdriver]

I'd really like to think that progress on the new SMS (or whatever it is that Myles will be doing) will progress a lot quicker than the Ops Manual revision that Mr Tizzard was initially employed to produce (four or more years in the making).

 

I also hope we are not seeing a pattern here as far as career progression is concerned.

 

 

[David Isaac]

It is quite sad that what may have been a noble attempt to bring RA Aus into compliance with the deed of agreement with CASA was so poorly implimented.

 

What surprises me more Ed is that given the heightened member awareness since the February EGM that a group of us called (I think you referred to us then as malcontents and then later gloated in an email broadcast to many of how we were defeated at the EGM) that you would allow yourself to be influenced by CASA to the extent of a single handed (or was it) arbitrary decision.

 

If the Board was that slack in not abiding by the CASA deed arrangements, why did you not bring it to the membership. But again how would you do that ... we have no public forum other than this one, and given the Board resolved to create a RA Aus website forum two years ago, where is it???

 

I believe a censure motion has been moved against your actions as President. That is extremely sad, but brought on by your own failure to follow the rules of the constitution and now I believe we have lost one of our most senior and respected Board members as a result. If the Board votes in support of your actions now, they are complicit in your illegal moves. The Board cannot absolve itself of its fiduciary duties by signing a carte blanch approval for any action you choose and if they did, they are as guilty as you in this sorry arrangement.

 

I think this is tragic for RA Aus ... is the Board or the executive ever going to learn any basic lessons of governance.

 

You had it in your hand and all you had to do was follow a process that would have been expected by CASA. Now we are in dissarray again.

 

Noble though your attempts may have been, the act was always fraut with danger. Were you 'set up' by others Ed?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Who is the most senior and respected board member we have lost?

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Senior in years, not time on the board and the departure may have only been from the exec.

 

 

[David Isaac]

I believe Michael Apps has resigned from the Treasurers position again after only agreeing to pick it up following Myles resignation. We cannot afford to lose people of this calibre under these circumstances.

 

 

[Captain]

I offer Ed Herring my full and unwavering support in these desperate times. I only wish that the people on this Forum who spend so much time bashing Board Members, Presidents, and RA-Aus in general, would instead direct their obvious passion in a positive and useful way eg 'What can we do to help" instead of posting on some Forum that is full of Keyboard Warriors hiding behind aforementioned Keyboards, that overshadow the good contributors and contributions on this site. So many negative people that offer a lot of pi$$ and wind, but no real solutions.

As opposed to you, who just offer abuse and blind unthinking support.

 

So I ask you, can you read and evaluate what has actually been said here?

 

This thread contains some of the best reasoned debate that has ever appeared on Ian's Forums and many, many posts have provided the background and detail of why the poster objected to the way that the RAA President has acted.

 

Many have also said that while they support the position that has been created (after all, it has been discussed for many months but never acted on by the Board), the method, reasoning and the selection of the candidate was flawed.

 

Yet here you are, hurling abuse and never providing your given name. Talk about anonymous keyboard warriors.

 

Many who have provided reasoned posts in this thread have served on the Board in the past or have recently volunteered their time to assist the RAA out of its mire. What have you done?

 

One of your recent posts alleges that many here are knocking the President and Board. You must be delusional. All that is being mourned is the lack of correct process, procedure, management and governance ......... which is exactly what was addressed by the members at the Feb 9th EGM, and at which the dysfunctional Board & Ed Herring gave assurance after assurance that they would do better.

 

What Ed has done in demanding Board approval, both in advance and in retrospect, is exactly what the members took Steve Runciman to task for doing.

 

My criticism of how Ed has acted is as much out of frustration and disappointment as it is my distaste at his lack of wit about how such matters should be handled by a President.

 

Ed is not the CEO nor the GM. He is the President and he is the 1st amongst equals on the Board. Yet the Board were not informed of this appointment until after the event. That is indefensible.

 

However I do thank ED very much for posting a response on this forum.

 

But for the SA JF, if you are incapable of providing reasoned responses, how about you at least knock off the abuse. You are a fool & manipulator if your reading of any post here has anyone "bashing the RAA" as you put it.

 

 

[Oscar]

Having adopted and posted several times a 'we need to know the circumstances' position on this thread, I had hoped that Ed Herring would respond with information that would put this action in a rational light, even though it was obvious that proper procedures had been circumvented. However, his explanation has done the opposite for me and I now feel it necessary to add my voice to the ranks of those who are very deeply concerned that this was no 'oopsy' moment but more of a SNAFU in RAA management.

 

Since the necessity to address the systemic issues of training and safety and the need to install someone to develop and oversight an action plan had been apparently discussed by the Board for some considerable time, with Steve Runciman and Ed Herring being, according to Ed, trying to get such an appointment through but being defeated by numbers on the Board, it is extremely difficult to see the speed and unilateral nature of Ed's action as anything but seizing an opportunity to carry forward a pet project. In those circumstances I have to wonder further just what 'ultimatum' CASA placed before Ed that he felt allowed him to do this in this way? Quite frankly, if it was anything less than 'appoint a Safety-Training Compliance Co-ordinator in the next 24 hours or lose $60K' then there is extremely thin grounds for defence of Ed's action. If it was more a general comment that RAA remains in breach of the Agreement with CASA and therefore CASA support funding is in jeopardy, a range of possible actions must surely have been available and would have required more time to develop a plan and discuss it with CASA, and the time in which this could be achieved could have been negotiated.

 

In view of the 'known' requirement for progress of action to meet CASA's concerns, I find it extremely difficult to believe that Myles's resignation, which made him 'available' for this position, was simply fortuitous rather than a n arrangement between Ed and Myles. That speaks of a plan for the creation of and appointment to the position before Ed had the meeting with CASA - certainly describable as 'jobs for the boys'.

 

Ed's explanation, far from going any distance to clear the air, leaves me for on in the 'Not Happy, Jan' camp. The necessity for a major re-vamp of the Board has been solidified as far as I am concerned.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I offer Ed Herring my full and unwavering support in these desperate times. I only wish that the people on this Forum who spend so much time bashing Board Members, Presidents, and RA-Aus in general, would instead direct their obvious passion in a positive and useful way eg 'What can we do to help" instead of posting on some Forum that is full of Keyboard Warriors hiding behind aforementioned Keyboards, that overshadow the good contributors and contributions on this site. So many negative people that offer a lot of pi$$ and wind, but no real solutions.

There are many on this site that are both offering assistance as well as a visible voice. I for one and running for the board (see http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/raa-2013-general-elections-for-board.61062/#post-289036) and strongly support Tony King and Trevor Bange in their efforts too.

 

As for piss and wind I'm afraid that's what our board has offered us since the February general meeting (and prior to that as well). And if you don't believe me then consider this quote from that meeting made by none other than Ed himself - "But we have to have strategy in our future, to set us on the right track and make sure that we comply with proper governance."

 

Comply with proper governance! This comment is captured for all to see on page 50 of the 'official minutes' as published on the RA-Aus website at http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/RA-AUS-9th-Feb-2013-TRANSCRIPT.pdf (fourth line from the bottom).

 

I sent Ed a letter offering him my support when he came into the president's position. Considering his comments at the February meeting and his actions since taking on the post I can't say that I am impressed...