Variable pitch props

[myshed2]

Is it within the LSA - RAA rules to have a variable pitch prop on an ultra light?

 

 

[Guest nunans]

Is it within the LSA - RAA rules to have a variable pitch prop on an ultra light?

looking through the members market one would think it is as there are plenty of in flight adjustable props on ra reg advertised aircraft. but at the feb 9 act meeting middo suggested that at the time there was no manufacturer with the paperwork done to certify a variable in flight prop on thier aircraft and as such the variable pitch aircraft would have to go back to fixed or ground adjust to pass rego this year.

Other people will know more by now.

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Nun and, I think what you are saying is correct for factory built aircraft, but for a mature built I think you can put what ever you want on, however I don't know if RAAus can issue an inflight variable pitch prop endorsement, you need to get that through you GA training. ( I'm not certain here and am happy to be corrected ).

 

 

[Camel]

RAA can issue In Flight Adjustable Propellor endorsements, I train with a a certified ultralight Sportstar with an adjustable prop and issue the ( AP ) endorsement through RAA.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

That is the issue Camel... as far as I have read and heard no factory built LSA aircraft "officially" can have a inflight adjustable propellor. The rules do not allow for it as there are NO certified props for LSA operation it is a european standard not the standard our mob use here for LSA

 

 

[rankamateur]

That is the issue Camel... as far as I have read and heard no factory built LSA aircraft "officially" can have a inflight adjustable propellor. The rules do not allow for it as there are NO certified props for LSA operation it is a european standard not the standard our mob use here for LSA

So the guts of it is that us amateur built types need to go to a school and get our variable pitch endorsement before the suitably equipped aircraft all come up for rego renewal or we will no longer have the opportunity.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

As fr as I am aware our amateur built aircraft can have them fitted no problem ......we do need an endoesement though. But that is easy as the endorsement is done in our own aircraft by a suitable instructor. The other issue is a LSA rules issue.....LSA aircraft in the USA are NOT allowed inflight adjustables. Max tedesco made a coment about it when I was talking to him about the Vision...he said the aircraft performs much better with a IFA but it is not allowed there

 

 

[eightyknots]

As fr as I am aware our amateur built aircraft can have them fitted no problem ......we do need an endoesement though. But that is easy as the endorsement is done in our own aircraft by a suitable instructor. The other issue is a LSA rules issue.....LSA aircraft in the USA are NOT allowed inflight adjustables. Max tedesco made a coment about it when I was talking to him about the Vision...he said the aircraft performs much better with a IFA but it is not allowed there

Wouldn't the easiest solution not be to build the W-A Vision as an amateur built plane and then fit an Airmaster prop on it?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well the Vision can only be built here as a ELSA as it is more than 51% built when you get the kit. I have asked about the differences between the amateur built and ELSA and as far as I am old there is very little rule difference so effectively it can be done here. It is somewhat different in the USA though I believe. There are other options other than the air master there is the GT as well available here also I think Bolly have theirs going now but not for the 100hp engines only the 80hp

 

 

[eightyknots]

I wonder if the GT is lighter than the AirMaster? (and cheaper?)

 

 

[Camel]

That is the issue Camel... as far as I have read and heard no factory built LSA aircraft "officially" can have a inflight adjustable propellor. The rules do not allow for it as there are NO certified props for LSA operation it is a european standard not the standard our mob use here for LSA

My Sportstar is not an LSA but a certified ultralight plane and is allowed to operate with the in flight adjustable prop. LSA aircraft have a problem as the prop must have an ASTM to be allowed from the manufacturer.

Anyone wishing an inflight adjustable prop endorsement can do it in their own home built or in a Certified ultralight such as mine.

 

 

[Virago]

I understand some engines can be adversely affected by in flight adjustable props ... Don't know what type of engine you're using but it would pay to swot up on that aspect. John.

 

 

[facthunter]

I would be more concerned with what the engine does to the prop rather than the reverse. Of course over coarsening the prop will be similar to making a car engine slog up a hill when it should be in a lower gear and spinning more freely.

 

Variable pitch props are more frail than basic wooden designs. props have to be matched to engines. Having a prop certified requires a lot of testing. There may be RPM settings that have to be avoided./ Nev

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Camel I know at GoFly they use a Texan there for training and they had to get rid of the IFA and it was "certified"...they were told to and now it is legal....I think you should contact Wayne Matthews or get hold of the ops manager as I believe it is all up in the air still about the view being taken here. I think casa are not pushing it at the moment due to the rest of the debacle involved in RAA but it will come to a head.

 

 

[Camel]

Texan is LSA I believe. You should check the difference.

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

I've flown a sportstar at YBUN that had an iFA prop I don't see it being illegal if a flying school is using one? How was it registered n the first place?? I guess this is part of the current cluster f&(#.....

 

 

[Camel]

Camel I know at GoFly they use a Texan there for training and they had to get rid of the IFA and it was "certified"...they were told to and now it is legal....I think you should contact Wayne Matthews or get hold of the ops manager as I believe it is all up in the air still about the view being taken here. I think casa are not pushing it at the moment due to the rest of the debacle involved in RAA but it will come to a head.

LSA was introduced in 2006 in Australia, this copy of some history may help.

 

The immediate task of the AUF was to develop Operation Regulations for ultralight aircraft and to address the relatively high accident rate that existed in these early years. It must be remembered that at that time ultralights were restricted to single seat aircraft, which meant that it was illegal to be taught to fly in an ultralight, and they had a maximum operational height limit of 300 feet above ground level. This was exacerbated by the fact that ultralights of the day had extremely limited flight envelopes, occasional stability problems and somewhat less than reliable engines.

 

 

As an emergency means of addressing the training issue, the Civil Aviation Authority introduced CAO 95.25 in 1985, which provided for factory built certified single place and two place ultralights and to allowed the two seaters to be used as training aircraft for the 95.10 pilots. This was a significant milestone in Australian ultralight aviation and enabled the AUF to set up an ultralight training scheme and encourage the establishment of ultralight training facilities.

 

 

[Guest nunans]

I've flown a sportstar at YBUN that had an iFA prop I don't see it being illegal if a flying school is using one? How was it registered n the first place?? I guess this is part of the current cluster f&(#.....

I think in the past i could have registered my sheep dog with raa! But after the fourth audit fail all these registrations are being looked into and back in feb at least, there was a problem with IFA props on LSA.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

OK, just a bit of a summary on In Flight adjustable Propellors (IAP's) for recreational aircraft.

 

As of today there is still no standard that CASA accepts for Light Sport Aircraft to utilise them in Australia. There are numerous "conformant' standards that manufacturers and distributors are claiming that meet the ASTM's but none to my knowledge have been accepted by CASA. Aircraft that are fitted "standard with an IAP and have a 'type certificate" Certificate of Airworthiness issued by a CASA "approved person" are allowed operate with the fitted propellor.

 

Now CASA had 2 choices- shut down every LSA aircraft with an IAP immediately they became aware of this or allow the the self regulating body( RA-Aus) to audit, then work with the manufacturer's, owners etc,to gain compliance. CASA sensibly followed the latter. Unfortunately RA Aus, and more importantly the importers and distributors have not all conformed to this request, and this is now being enforced as part of the registration audit process. If you've got an IAP on your LSA aircraft and can't provide a copy of an approved ASTM standard statement from your aircraft manufacturer/distributor then the registration renewal will not be processed until an approved propellor is fitted( fixed pitch), and proven via documentation, and or inspected and signed off by an "approved person. Otherwise it can revert to ELSA( Experimental) but as such cannot be used for training.

 

The last thing I heard from Avalon was that european manufacturers were working with ICAO to get an equivalent EASA standard accepted, but I am not aware if this has yet occurred.

 

Camel/Mark. The Texan in question was not "type certified" but a 550LSA version and as such fell in the above explained category. The registration authorities from 2006 onwards in RA-Aus, and the manufacturers and distributors should have been aware of this and conformed to these requirements. I believe there are significant numbers of other aircraft still awaiting renewals due to owners/distributors/manufacturers still unable to provide suitable conformant documentation at the request of the current RA-Aus registration authorities.

 

Hope this helps.

 

BP.

 

 

[damkia]

OT, but I love this "taught me" tag line from BP2469 above..

 

"Skydiving- time management"

 

 

[facthunter]

OR retirement plan? Nev

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

OT, but I love this "taught me" tag line from BP2469 above.."Skydiving- time management"

Yes anyone who complains about not having enough time in circuit to do everything needs to go skydiving-55 seconds from 10 thousand feet to save your life and perform all sorts of manoeuvres in formation.

Glad you liked it!

 

 

[djpacro]

OK, just a bit of a summary on In Flight adjustable Propellors (IAP's) for recreational aircraft.As of today there is still no standard that CASA accepts for Light Sport Aircraft to utilise them in Australia. There are numerous "conformant' standards that manufacturers and distributors are claiming that meet the ASTM's but none to my knowledge have been accepted by CASA.

 

BP.

that seems inconsistent with http://www.raa.asn.au/2013/02/lsas-with-in-fligh-adjustable-prop/

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

that seems inconsistent with http://www.raa.asn.au/2013/02/lsas-with-in-fligh-adjustable-prop/

The standard advised as I'm aware is AC2142 , F2506 is the ATSM std for props.In any case as the bulletin states, no manufacturers have provided compliant evidence to the available standard. Your right DJP, there is a standard, it's just no current manufacturer has provided proof on their certificate of compliance in meeting the standard to date. I should have said "no presented standard by LSA manufacturers"

 

 

[bilby54]

OK, just a bit of a summary on In Flight adjustable Propellors (IAP's) for recreational aircraft.As of today there is still no standard that CASA accepts for Light Sport Aircraft to utilise them in Australia. There are numerous "conformant' standards that manufacturers and distributors are claiming that meet the ASTM's but none to my knowledge have been accepted by CASA. Aircraft that are fitted "standard with an IAP and have a 'type certificate" Certificate of Airworthiness issued by a CASA "approved person" are allowed operate with the fitted propellor.

 

BP.

I don't understand how an aircraft can be certified under a European standard and accepted by CASA but the IFA prop has to be certified to ATSM standard.

 

I was under the impression that the manufacturer had to approve changes to the LSA aircraft for it to remain in that category. If CASA requirement is to fit a fixed pitch prop then how does sit with the original certificate from the manufacturer? The recent spiel from the ops manager says inter alia that manufacturers cannot "cherry pick" provisions from various standards but isn't what CASA is now doing?

 

Australia is so bogged down in rules in procedures that I am sure we are oozing to a stop